BOAZ_David “may wish to 'run' but its a pity you have left little of substance in your wake. I”

Spot on – barely a ripple … those oh lack Backbone to debate, prefering to “cut and run” can try to ignore all they like the majority of rational thinkers who hold a view contra to their own,

They are also free to delude themselves that the majority of Australians know nothing and do not matter – until, of course, it comes to those who vote and count in elections.

Miranda – I was born in UK. I did not just "arrive" in Australia, I went through the due process of acceptance. I have also lived in USA and had to go through due process of acceptance their too.
When someone respects Australia sufficiently to wait and undergo the acceptance process they are of a character which is lacking in those who decide to come without papers and without respect for the country which they demand house them. This latter group show no respect for Australian laws or the Australian community which they expect to accommodate them.

Whatever circumstance befalls them is their burden to deal with, not the Australian community which they have abused by trying to circumvent its laws and borders.

Those who consider that that mandatory detention of asylum seekers is effective in deterring whatever it is it is supposed to deter, presumably more "boat people", may care to note that Paris Aristotle, a member of the Immigration Detention Advisory Group and Director of the Victorian Foundation for the Survivors of Torture, said on "In the National Interest" (ABC Radio National Sundays 12:05pm) in early February that he did not consider that mandatory detention contributed to the decline in arrivals of asylum seekers.

Those who in any way wish to justify the appalling and inhumane detention of asylum seekers on any grounds may care to read the articles/talks on the website of Julian Burnside QC. And they might then think about what it means to be Australian and what Australia stands for, or used to.

What are the reasons for the conditions which exist in the countries from which asylum seekers come to this country? To what extent have developed countries contributed to those conditions? To what extent does Australia, allied with those developed countries as it is, have any obligation to do more than “process” those people seeking asylum? In particular, does Australia have any obligation, humanitarian or otherwise, to advocate not only aid but also measures which will genuinely improve the economic situation and particularly the situation concerning justice, in those countries?

In this, as in all matters, what obligations do Australian Government Ministers have to tell Australians the truth?

In this, as in all matters, what obligations do we have as civilised people, to treat other people in a civilised manner, that is in a manner which would be consistent with the fact that we are members of human society?

On Deterrence
Indefinite mandatory detention is damaging, expensive but doesn’t deter. In ten years from 1989 to 1998, there were 3072 boat arrivals. In 1999 alone, after mandatory detention had been in place for years, it was 3736.

Temporary protection visas (TPVs) for refugees were introduced as a deterrent but had the opposite effect. They don’t allow family reunion and there were/are thousands of men living in the Australian community on TPVs whose wives and kids have no legitimate way to join them, even after years of separation.

TPVs might have stopped more men making the journey but not the wives and kids of men already living here.

In 1999, 424 or 11% of boat arrivals were children, in 2001, the figure was at least 1578 or 26%.

(Split between adults/kids not available for all boats, source http://www.sievx.com/dbs/boats/ )

What most likley stopped the boats coming was when SIEV X sank resulting in the deaths of 353 people – 146 women, 142 children, 65 men - and suspicion about the lengths to which the Australian government would go to deter asylum seeker boats. Incidentally, our family-friendly government still refuses to release names of those who died on SIEV X. There are men living in the community whose entire families drowned when this boat sank.

There does need to be a system to process asylum claims, but not what we’ve got at the moment. Nothing justifies these deaths, or people left to rot in detention for 3,4,5,6 years.

Col Rouge, you were indeed fortunate that you were able to avail yourself of due procedures to access the USA and Australia. A refugee on the other hand is a person who is being persecuted, usually on racial, religous or political grounds. Often under threat of imprisonment or execution, they are in no position to go through proper channels to apply to leave their own country to go to another.

Can you imagine a person who is in genuine fear of their life from their government even applying for a passport, let alone being granted one, then applying for a visa or other travel documents to leave the country. That would guarantee retribution from the government.
We live such a comfortable life in Australia it is difficult to imagine that for some people the only option is to flee leaving behind everything - family, friends and property.
When people reach our shores in such circumstances, regardless of how they get here, we are obliged to assess their claims to be refugees. We are not obliged to lock them up like criminals while those claims are processed.

to clarify my previous post, boat arrivals means the number of people arriving by boat, not the number of the boats that arrived.

I'm also a migrant from England, I know what's involved in that. My brother in law was a refugee from Iraq in the 1950's, my step father from the holocaust, and others rellies fled Russian pogroms way back. Not comparable with migrants, migrants can safely go home.

"Migrants follow their dreams, refugees bring their nightmares."

The last three letters especially, and there were others,

beginning after col's loving, kind, from the heart considerate missive. Thank you it is great to know that there are still those who believe in a fair go. Then sadly we have those with little understanding or compassion. These are they that believe completely and follow our great honest, truthful leader. If these unthinkers heard howard utter the word 'crap'. Their over riding urge would be to find a toilet so to obey his greatness, thinking he had given them another command.
Yes I know I could be seen as a little crude, but better that than being miserable, mean-spirited and heartless - just like 'you know who'
PS. WELCOME! Shoshana, great to have you here. Regards, numbat