David BOAZ – that we agree is reassuring – I see the whole debate as the right of Australians, through the elected government, to decide the composition and quality of Australian migrants and to reject those who would selfishly ignore our migrant entry laws.

As for the lefties - they are too feeble and morally deficient to consider as mattering anymore. That battle was won a decade ago – all that is “left of the left” are the dullards who lack the sense or imagination to realise their day is past.

Miranda “Asylum seekers who arrive in Australia are locked up in jail for years without end for no legal reason.”

Illegal entrants who have deliberately evaded and violated migration laws are locked up but can expedite their release by accepting repatriation back from whence they came. The duration of their stay is within their control (but not the venue).

Shoshana – what is lacking is the “persecution” which you speak of – once they are beyond the borders of their persecutors they have escaped the excuse for further travel to Australia and economic hardship does not qualify.

Garra – hard to prove what someone is when they have destroyed their passports and other documents…and medical tests are applied dependent on where you come from.

Re xenophobes – you point fails - I see no one suggesting we disqualify genuine refugees from anywhere in the world.

The real difference is

those who believe Australia has a right to exercise sovereign control of its borders and decide who will and will not be eligible for migration

versus

the unregulated chaos of unmonitored, unsustainable anarchy in which people of any character (or lack) – criminally intent or otherwise, arrive by any means, regardless of their ability, suitability or desire to assimilate into this multicultural society of ours (one which disproves your fatuous claim of xenophobia)

Re Amnesty International - an informal organisation – which express an opinion – and I can disagree with it.

This topic will close when we all decide - the “leftovers” do not speak for me!

So Garra thinks he can call his opponents (or anyone who don't subscribe to his worldview) xenophobes and end all discussion. Just goes to prove racism has been emptied of any meaning, and is used to shut down any debate.

"Davo", I was neither trying to shut down the discussion, nor did I mention racism. I meant that this thread is just about exhausted of meaningful comment, and the subsequent posts by you, "Col Rouge" and "BOAZ-David" underline my point.

Given the lack of logical coherence in the posts by you chaps above, I can only conclude that they must emanate from xenophobia, which my Macquarie defines as "a fear or hatred of foreigners", quite a different sentiment to that of racism.

On the other hand, given that "davo" has in these forums argued against the notion of compassion, I'd be willing to concede that his heartlessness towards refugees is a product of a more generalised misanthropy.

I don't regard supporters of our immoral and inhumane policies towards asylum seekers as "opponents". Rather, I think that anybody who would knowingly support such cruel and unjust treatment of fellow human beings is also deserving of compassion from those of us with a kinder disposition towards humanity.

No doubt those of xenophobic or misanthropic disposition will try and maintain this platform for their unfortunate ideas, but I for one am now done with this particular thread.

Garra,

may wish to 'run' but its a pity you have left little of substance in your wake. I see a few shallow sloguns "immoral, Xenophobic, Offensive" I mean.. kinder garten socialists are good at that kind of thing, u know those full of enthusiasm and passion, but dont know enuf yet to actually deal with reality.

I asked some very important questions to Miranda, to which I've received ZERO response, perhaps because they are closer to the truth than either you or she would like ? You then come back with calling my investigative probing 'offensive' ? I'm trying to understand peoples position, so, I ask. Miranda has run for cover it would appear.

I've said a lot in point form, not hard to understand, to describe my questions as 'xenophic' does NOT answer the issues raised about political influence by small groups. Nor does it address our right to self determination and control of those who wish to come to this country.

NUBMAT.. special for u :) Listen, I'm not down on the Pope, seems like he was a wonderful man, I am concerned about the great disparity I see between the foundation of our faith, being the Scriptures, and the gospel as preached by the Apostles ; and the 'version' of the faith presented in Catholicism. There is little resemblance. The almost idolatrous deification of Mary, "mother of God" ? it sounded like His holiness was more looking forward to meeting her than our Lord. It is only a long tradition which can sustain such a self contradictory idea as 'mother'.....of GOD. And its not 'me' who judges, it is scripture itself. If u can show me my error from scripture, please do so. It is as much my business as it was Luthers and that of various others who opposed the selling of forgiveness which is still actually part of Catholic doctrine. Idolatry is praying to.... 'other' than God. "You shall have no other gods before me" -blessings.

My position is that we should close down detention centres and free the refugees as soon as possible ie. today would be good.
These people can continue their 'process' through the courts and the DIMIA hoops in the community - we used to house asylum seekers in hostels before the ALP brought in detention.

I also think the whole immigration system in Australia needs to be investigated and overhauled. If the system doesn't work, change it.

Every time I write a new post I receive a lot of responses and can only answer in 350 words while each of the questions I receive would take at least 350 words - to just graze the surface.

There is so much to learn and when I first found read about The Tampa incident in 2001 I wanted to find out more and joined a refugee loop on the internet and visited a detention centre. From the inside, from the very people who were seeking asylum I found out what it was like to be them. I found mental illness, hope, despair, suicide, self-harm, deep fear.

You, I, anyone reading this forum could be one of them. If suddenly you had to leave Australia you would be in the same situation. How would you wish to be treated?

Miranda. I agree w/your posts. Many posters here, some of whom claim to be christian, simply don't have any empathy for people who are in desperate situations. They can't imagine wot its like to lose your family and friends in hostile acts - many refugees don't even know that much about Australia let alone a waiting list they just want to escape and are then preyed upon by people smugglers.

To those who think that boat people are disruptive, Vietnamese fled to Australia not so long ago and they are a positive part of our society now, so are the many Europeans who arrived earlier. We are all migrants - convicts were involuntary migrants. And I don't see wot difference that makes any way. The majority of refugees are found to be genuine. To those who oppose them - how would you feel if it was you and your children locked up for years on end?

History will prove how heartless you are.