BD: so U didn't bother reading my link. Quelle surprise.

And no, there is no win, BD, just a difference of opinion. U think I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I think you're intolerant and bigoted.

Fine.

"An asylum seeker incarcerated in Baxter detention centre overdosed on sleeping tablets last night. (Posted by Miranda, Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:51:14 AM)"

Exactly what does this prove Miranda. Suicide actually happens in this country as often as road fatalities. Are we going to ban cars?

Deaths in custody also happen - are we going to stop imprisoning anyone who breaks the law?

Does a new mother committing suicide mean we should ban motherhood?

Shame on you for using the death of an obviously disturbed person to further your political agenda. And so soon after the person died. The quick response time to you posting does not hide the glee of your point scoring.

t.u.s

Col Rouge - all of my grandparents were born in Australia, but one of my great-grandfathers did not wait in a queue or come in following proper procedures - he was a sailor who jumped ship in Melbourne, became a farmer and an exemplary citizen. Probably made more of a contribution to Australia than many others who have come as properly documented migrants. You obviously did not read properly my previous post where I fessed up to having an "illegal immigrant" in the family tree, but then doesn't surprise me.
BOAZ_David - I have no vested interest in supporting refugees other than a profound belief in human rights and social justice for all.

Your proposition that might is always right is absolutely appalling. That excuses every atrocity against minorities carried out by every tin-pot dictator at any time - all they have to say I did it in the name of God and for the majority of my subjects.

I don't know which God you believe in but as far as I an concerned you are welcome to any religious beliefs you like, but then so is every other person on the planet. Personally I am a committed atheist but I know I am a more tolerant person than many who profess to be believers. When you bring God into your might is right argument it just confirms my attitude to religion.

I just wanted to see what reaction the suicide of a person in Baxter detention centre would cause and how the forum would respond.

Unfortunately, my worst fears were realized. Those who care and those who don't were pretty much as I expected.

Yes, lots of people die for all sorts of reasons. Mothers commit suicide, car crashes, sudden infant death, deaths in custody. And generally there are all sorts of people who care, investigate, try to change and to stop it being repeated.

But some people on this loop unfortunately would not bother to change anything because it suits them that people are locked in detention because they feel 'safe'.

Well, locking innocents in detention doesn't make me feel safe. Because it is how we treat those most vulnerable in our society that matters most. What our government does to these people does matter. It also matters if they commit suicide because of the policy that our government has in place. That makes their deaths our fault. Yes, your fault Col Rouge, Boaz_David, etc!

Miranda it was a political stunt - using the death of someone to realise your worst fears.

Detention does not lead to suicide any more than motherhood or being a separated dad leads to suicide.

Usually the person has some deep psychological problem which manifests itself as suicide - otherwise the suicide rate would be much higher.

Your post took advantage of the plight of a detained person to make a political point that is not there.

It would be the same as someone who disagrees with homosexuality posting a comment about a just imprisoned gay peadophile to prove their point about the ills of homosexuality.

It was a cheap shot and says more about your character than the character of Col Rouge and Boaz_David who you so readily blamed for the death.

t.u.

You’re right t.u.s. Immigration detainees usually do have deep seated psychological problems, many suffer from post traumatic stress disorder because they have fled persecution, imprisonment, torture, violence, seen loved ones being killed - horrors I hope you and I never have to deal with.

Free torture and trauma counselling is available for refugees, in recognition of this. (More than 90% of detainees are found to be refugees)

What asylum seekers need is a place to feel safe and secure, and begin healing from previous trauma.

Instead they get locked up, which compounds their pain and suffering. And indefinitely - which in itself is recognised as a form of torture.

There's been numerous studies and reports supporting the view that indefinite detention does adversely affect mental health and is a major factor in the very high level of self harm and attempted suicide within immigration detention centres.

For an account from an ex-DIMIA employee see
http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human%5Frights/children%5Fdetention/statements/hamilton.html

One of the many reasons I am so opposed to indefinite mandatory detention is seeing firsthand how damaging it is. People who have experienced both the prison system and detention centres say prisons are better. There are more activities, the facilities are better and, importantly, the prisoners know how long they will be there.

Indefinite mandatory detention, especially for already vulnerable people, causes huge mental health problems that continue long after the refugees are finally released. Our mental health services are overstretched as it is. Government policy towards asylum seekers is adding to this problem, and the government knows it.

It is an indefensible system. The level of self harm alone should be enough for these hellholes to be shut down. 20% of kids self-harming? It’s state-sanctioned child abuse.