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The Forum > Article Comments > So what does it mean to be a man? > Comments

So what does it mean to be a man? : Comments

By Mark Christensen, published 29/3/2005

Mark Christensen poses the question: what does it mean to be a man?

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garra, sorry to hear that you have had your life impacted by DV. It is an horrific thing for all involved. Please note that my concerns in this area about the impact on victims of dismissal of their plight not a defence of perpetrators.

Rather than dismiss DV against men as a sick joke please have a look at the child abuse stats or read the Heady, Scott, de Vaus paper mentioned in previous post. My understanding is that the stats for hospital treatment for serious injury resulting from DV is not extremely genderised, there is some difference but not to the level you might expect from the manner DV is publicised or from your experience.

Some excerpts from the Headey, Scott, de Vaus paper

"The hypotheses we test are thus based on ‘majority’ professional and public opinion: (6)

- Men are significantly more likely to physically assault their female partners than vice-versa.

- The injuries inflicted by male partners are significantly more serious than those inflicted by female partners.

- Men who physically assault their partners are likely to be the sons of fathers who were violent to their own wives.

- Women who are physically assaulted are likely to be the daughters of violent fathers and of mothers who were assaulted."
~
"To sum up:

- Men were just as likely to report being physically assaulted by their partners as women. Further, women and men were about equally likely to admit being violent themselves.

- Men and women report experiencing about the same levels of pain and need for medical attention resulting from domestic violence.

- Violence runs in couples. In over 50% of partnerships in which violence occurred both partners struck each other.

- People who had violent parents were significantly more likely than others to be violent to their own partners and to be victims of violence themselves. On the other hand, a huge majority of people whose parents were violent do not assault their own partners. Moreover, the vast majority of those who are violent did not have violent parents.
" - word limit.
Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:30:26 AM
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Having been through extreme physical violence perpetrated by the Senior intake in the RAAF apprentice scheme.. laying awake at nights, not knowing who to find help from or when the next drunken rampage would begin, often having to listen to the sickening thud of fist against flesh on one of my intake mates for an hour at a time, 16 yrs old and first time away from home, beatings, bashings, flushes, forced eating of used condoms attempted on some of us, humiliation of having to spit polish their shoes, being belted continously until the whole of my chest and shoulder was blue, I identify with the plight of battered women.

One thing is for sure, there is nothing about being a 'man' in any of that.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 7 April 2005 1:20:18 PM
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Rancid, Happy, Garra, Robert

Rancid
“To be a man you must be a feminist.”

There is no elaboration or substantiation on this, but if this statement is a type of axiom then the following statement would also be true:- “To be a woman you must be a masculinist”

Now if these two statements were combined then it leads to the following statement:- To be a woman or a man you must be a feminist and a masculinist.

So in the last statement, both men and women would have to be aware of social injustices occurring to all people, and not just to one gender. Unfortunately I can’t see this occurring if so many people only believe in the first statement.

Happy, Garra, Robert
Perhaps many people like to see things in black and white, so they like to see a “good” guy (who is beyond reproach) and a “bad” guy (who must be reformed), and in the past it has been more convenient to have males portrayed as the “bad” guys who need to reform. Examples of this occur in this article (Eg. “men still struggle to remember: relate, don’t fix”, “It is this stumbling quest that has left men feeling isolated and fearful” etc)

In terms of DV studies, there have been many that have resulted in highly conflicting findings, and many DV studies have been highly gender biased, (eg the 1996 ABS study into domestic violence), and have only considered male abuse of females, and not female abuse of other females, children, or males. So such studies then lead to false perceptions that females are always the victim, and males are always the bad guys who have to be reformed. But there is a considerable amount of evidence now showing that female violence (including physical, emotional, sexual, and financial violence) towards other females, men and children is quite common, but often under-reported. Perhaps too many people are too uncomfortable in accepting that female violence occurs, and males are not always the bad guys.
Posted by Timkins, Friday, 8 April 2005 3:08:08 PM
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Timkins, it is kind of interesting how focussed some people are on ignoring the plight of men suffering DV isn't it? The effort some take to specify their concern for female victims rather than take a stand against all DV. Even if DV was as genderised as some believe the unwillingness of some to have compassion for the male victims is an interesting give away. Even if only 10%(I don't buy that) then don't those 10% deserve sympathy or are they as Patricia Peason suggested they are viewed "any man who finds himself at the receiving end of a woman's fist is a liar or a freak"?

I note that no one has come back to point out technical flaws or obvious bias in the material I referenced in earlier posts (maybe the "Abused child trust" is a front for a radical mens group, if so I would like to know).

Maybe the lack of compassion for suffering men is part of what Mark Christensen is wondering about when he wrote "It is this stumbling quest that has left men feeling isolated and fearful.". If I am feeling at all isolated and fearful it is because significant parts of my life are in the hands of a system which gives every appearance of being genderised and does not seem to give a rats how much harm it does me in the interests of helping someone else. A system in which people seem to take especial care to make it clear that men don't count by explicitly excluding them when for the same effort they could be included - "all victims of DV" is as easy to say as "women and children". Lucky there is more to life than home, family etc.
Posted by R0bert, Friday, 8 April 2005 8:46:30 PM
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In my ten years as an ambulance officer I have witnessed and cleaned up the messy after math of a lot of male violence. I have even been guilty of it myself when I trashed my ex wife's home and have spent the past 3 years restablishing trust with my kids who were understandebly traumatised by my rage.

The only time I have seen evidence of female violence was in self defence (she had training in martial arts). I have no doubt that there are violent women, however in relation to male agression it is way lower. I'm not going to quote stats - I have my own direct experience here. Also I believe this forum is about what it means to be a man, not 'lets blame women for our short comings'. While I am sure that there are psychologically and physically vindictive women out there - they really are a minority in comparision to male violence.

I do agree that the victims of female aggression require just as much support as the legions of victims of male rage.

The evidence of male aggression is all around us, every day; on the roads, at sport, in pubs and in the home. All I know is if I'm walking down a dark street late at night and someone is approaching me I would prefer them to be female. Men simply are more dangerous. Feel like I'm stating the bleeding obvious.

As men, we need to take a good hard look at ourselves - its not easy, its not pleasant. So please use this forum constructively instead of blaming women - which is something that goes on ad nauseum on this website.
Posted by Ambo, Saturday, 9 April 2005 9:19:59 AM
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"To even off the debate playing field it seems one piece of statistical evidence (that women and men hit one another in roughly equal numbers) is hauled out from my 1985 research - and distorted - to “prove” the position on violence against men. However, the critical rate of injury and homicide statistics provided in that same research are often eliminated altogether, or reduced to a parenthetical statement saying that “men typically do more damage.” The statement that men and women hit one another in roughly equal numbers is true, however, it cannot be made in a vacuum without the qualifiers that a) women are seriously injured at seven times the rate of men and b) that women are killed by partners at more than two times the rate of men.
Thus, when we look at injuries resulting from violence involving male and female partners, it is categorically false to imply that there are the same number of “battered” men as there are battered women. Research shows that nearly 90 percent of battering victims are women and only about ten percent are men.

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: Not even a level playing field by Richard J. Gelles
Posted by happy, Saturday, 9 April 2005 9:34:56 AM
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