David I do not understand what you mean by your response to my offer to give you any unfertilized eggs. Did you understand what I meant by the offer? For me the egg is not 'a life'; for you it is. That is fine with me. I respect your decision. You need to respect mine.

Ask yourself, would Jesus have prevented me from having an abortion or would be have left it up to my conscience? Surely it is up to God to judge my actions, not you? There is no commandment that thou must prevent others from taking 'a life', is there?

If you are confident that your God exists, then he will judge me (he tells you that vengence is his) and you have no business voting to impose your personal beliefs on to me. No business as a Christian to prevent others doing things that do not in any way impact on your own life.

I think you are missing the whole point of Christianity, which is a personal belief system. It is for you to use to develop in yourself the qualities that you attribute to Christ and God - not for you to insist that others accept your truth.

I suggest that if you were a true Christian, you would be humbled by the difficulty of interpreting the inconsistences and paradoxes in the word of God and you certainly would not be so arrogant as to think that you have the answers for all of us.

Back in the 50's and 60's we experienced fear and damnation as the tool of control,used by the christian faith.Now we have the caring ,sharing and loving god because people would be no longer conned by such a rudimentary attempt at control by fear.Well, which is it?
We don't have to believe in any god to be worth while beings.Your religion is what you try hardest at, to improve yourself and those whom you influence."Belief "doesn't make you a better person.
The religious right is only coming to the fore because many think that they have the monopoly on morality.We all need morality since it is the glue that commits human relationships to a position of trust,because without it, all the laws in the world will not make our economy or society work.
The notion of the existence of god is childish postulation.We will never know until we die.What really matters is the reality that confronts us daily.Those who get solace from religion are welcome to it,but don't try to impose it on others

Oh, I see now, Aslan. It's a question of semantics, of the translation of ancient Hebrew word, which "without exception.. refers to intentional, violent murder".

From that perspective, couldn't one argue that other forms of 'killing' are also OK too - like in the cases of euthanasia or abortion (if one accepts that a foetus is a person)? On the other hand, I don't suppose the myths and legends of a bunch of neolithic Semitic goat herders have too much to say about those issues.

This of course emphasises the hypocrisy of those who claim that their anthology of folk tales is the only Truth, while simultaneously playing word games in order to justify what is in reality just another religious ideology.

I prefer the approach of science, under which it is possible to not only accept that there is much we do not yet know, but also sets out a rational program for acquiring new knowledge - which after all provides the context, if not the basis, for any form of morality.

There is a huge difference between scientific hypotheses and 'just so' stories. It seems to me that the latter term would be apposite for that anthology of fairy stories around which Christians and others construct ideology under the guise of faith.

As I've said before, we had the Enlightenment centuries ago. Let's not go back to the Dark Ages.

Morgan

Morgan, Christianity has absolute truth, principles, yes. They are 2.
Love God, Love your neighbour. Those 2 truths are illustrated in numerous ways through the unfolding of Salvation history in the Bible.
They are also 'defined' which is an important point. Jesus, when asked 'who is my neighbour' responded with the story of the good samaritan, which according to the Jews did not exist (a Samaritan who was 'good') Jesus knew how to make a point by choosing the characters skillfully.

RINGTAIL. "locks on to the remaining stump of the ever shortening tail" hehe...
I dont remember threatening to 'carve u up' err can u cut and paste please ? I only mentioned 'chomp ur tail and make u into roadkill' I thought.. but then pre-alzheimers is probably getting to me by now at 56 :)
But hey.. all such things are meant to inject an element of humor and light heartedness, not to make you cringe or take seriously.

Comparing me unfavorably with the Lord Jesus is a good thing, it reminds me of my prime qualification to be 'christian' i.e. a sinner in need of grace.
"Formal religion" hmm lets refer to Jesus, he went about with a band of 12,from place to place,teaching them that the kingdom of God is 'within' you. Repentance and Forgiveness, are the 2 messages of that Kingdom, and the joy, peace and freedom that come with them.
We who have experienced 'Him' also enjoy gathering with others and sharing that joy. Sadly, human nature being what it is, when gatherings become large, they need to be managed, served, led, and this produces both the best and worst u see in the Christian camp today. When in doubt, refer User Manual and make ones own decision :)

ARJAY the emphasis placed on the Christian message will vary according to social conditions. Threats of hell were used to 'control' yes, and also to 'save'. It depended on the speakers motives. The gospel is 1/ Repent, 2/ be Forgiven.
3/ Rejoice in New life under the Lordship of Christ.

Boaz wrote-
NEO u asked my favorite question "Why is 'your' God the real deal" ?
May I refer you to this ? Have a read, then get back to me.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20corinthians%2015;&version=64;

Boaz unfortunately few people other than fundamentalists believe the bible can be used as a accurate historical document or that the gospels were written by the apostles, so using the resurrection as a your proof gets you nowhere. Do you accept the eyewitness accounts of Muhammad ascending to Heaven from the Dome of the Rock? As mentioned earlier there is strong evidence that the Jews were just mountain Canaanites no exodus or walls tumbling down at Jericho all myths so your faith doesn’t even get off first base.

Through your severe confirmation bias you accept weak evidence as proof of the veracity of your faith but deny similar evidence from other faiths.

I've not posted in days, but i note that Aslan says I've no evidence for my remarks - about the psychology of religious belief - so i should be ignored. Of course my remarks were speculative, designed to stimuate reflection. I think he (i'm surely safe in assuming Aslan's a he!) simply picked up on the evidence-word to mask his own faith-based beliefs.

I was going to make some points about the broader definition of evolution, but the author's already done that. Remember that the slow process of discarding creationism began with a realisation that the earth itself had evolved over millions of years. Analysis of the fossil record, in terms of dating and comparison, made it clear some process of evolution was involved. Not the building of a fairy tale, rather the result of people puzzling over what could account for a growing body of data that couldn't fit with previous accounts. One has to realise the implications of rejecting evolution. One has to account for the abundance of species, and relations between them, in a non-evolutionary way. Presumably this means the old fixity-of-species idea (if there are other alternatives to an evolutionary process, let me know). This idea is as completely at odds with the data as the flat earth theory. But many theists will continue to cling to creationism. There's more at stake, for the status of their gods.

Again, to Aslan. You mix your defence of Christianity with much derision and aggressiveness. This definitely detracts from the pleasure of debate, but attests to your level of desperation and defensiveness. You also seem to be pinning your hopes on problems with the origin of life itself. It's not clear that Darwin's theory of evolution needs to account for this, though Darwin did say that a more comprehensive theory should account for it, according to Anthony Flew. It's an area worth exploring, though any connection between an understanding of how life sparked into being (if that's the right metophorical way of thinking about it) and a belief in a Christian god is surely tenuous.