SOMETHING
I've been harping on over and over and over for MANY years, is finally revealed so abundantly clearly in what Kevin has said in his last post !!!!
'PHILOSOPHY==> ARTS/EDUCATION===> MAN IN THE STREET'

I have always maintained that most people do NOT think original thoughts, (unless like myself they have separated themselves from the contemporary brainwashing process.. and I don't say that with any arrogance, it's been a conscious act).
When someone says "How can there be a God"? I ask.."Do u realize 'why' u can even ASK that question today" ??????

Then, with some effort u can trace back through the process outlined above, to a point where the existence of God was not even questioned, but the challenge was to understand 'HOW' God was at work in the world and our response to Him.

But then we had that bright spark NEITZCHE who took it upon himself to declare "GOD IS DEAD" and from him, and others like him, the idea was popularized, filtered down thru education and the arts to 'you' who think you are 'original' :)

One of the best coverages of this process is made by Francis Schaeffer. 'Escape from Reason" "The God who is there" 'He is there and He is not Silent".. etc.
I earnestly encourage anyone who has not seen his work, to try to have a read of 'Escape from Reason'.

The PROCESS he refers to, is seen in Kevs quotes above about the Queensland curriculim, about 'how' things are interpreted from teachers to student. When u see how pernicious this is, is it any wonder that there is a generation gap where the former cannot understand the following one and vice versa.

DANGER The hidden agenda of all the so called 'equality/peace/marginalization' speak is heinous. Its goal is nothing less than obtaining control of the state, nourishing youthful idealistic zeal and chaneling it into a revolutionary spirit to overthrow the state and replace it. ("Resistance".... school kids on the streets.... HAVE U READ their manifesto ?

arjay: typical liberal?? Let the sods, that is the lame, blind,incapacitated, un-employed starve. Better than spending "OUR" hard earned money on the stupid bludgers - it was probably their fault- or perhaps put them in uniform so they can be seen and humiliated and call it 'work-for-the-dole'. Anyhow hitler killed them so you are in good company. Regards, numbat

I generally don't post long post because most of you have not interest what’s so ever of actually exploring the topic. Your main interest is to vomit out (yes vomit BOAZ_David) your uninformed stand point. Kev here has some usual motivations which I will not go into here. His main rant about education is supposedly backed up by the PISA test the link below is a government site about this test and the one he likes to pretend does not exist. Have a read of the whole web site.

http://www.dest.gov.au/schools/Publications/2004/digest/science_default.htm

If you bother to read the whole thing you will see it’s not so black and white that our friend Kev makes out.

Below are some international links for your enjoyment, have a read remember the more you read the more likely you are to be able to make a valid opinion.

http://www.dilnet.upd.edu.ph/~ismed/online/articles/analysis/literature_review.htm

http://www.ifo.de/pls/guestci/download/CESifo%20Working%20Papers%202004/CESifo%20Working%20Papers%20November%202004/cesifo1_wp1330.pdf

And some more Aussie ones
http://www.dest.gov.au/schools/Publications/2004/digest/science_default.htm
http://www.educare.com.au/issue_155/155national_news.html

When you read these reports and what not try to find information that does not support your ideas not just look for the little nuggets that do. That goes for whatever side your on. It may come as a surprise to you but I’m not really on any side I do believe however that things can also be improved and that our educators have the very best of intentions and are the ones most able to develop curriculum not parents of pressure groups. If parents want their kids to learn something in particular then teach it themselves after school. Hell you may even spend some quality time with them.

I forgot this one from TIMSS own web site

http://nces.ed.gov/timss/pdf/naep_timss_pisa_comp.pdf

TMISS home page is
http://www.iea.nl/iea/hq/

and PISA is
http://www.pisa.oecd.org/pages/0,2987,en_32252351_32235731_1_1_1_1_1,00.html

enjoy

In my younger days, I used to share accommodation with a number of teachers. None of them did any work outside of school hours, but over time I became not that impressed with their attitudes towards students that weren’t doing very well at school. Inevitably they all tried to blame this on the child’s parents. However I often wondered if this was an easy excuse for their own failings, or the education systems failings.

Now with my own child going to school, I have kept this in mind, and I have tried to find out what the school is teaching, and how they are teaching it. I get very few straightforward answers when I have asked these types of questions, and I think that this is often because the teachers themselves are so confused about what they should be teaching, or how they should be teaching it.

The long time teachers know how to get the information into the children’s heads. They know this from experience, but those techniques do not go with the wishy-washy way they are being told to now teach.

I see education as just one area where parents will have to start to “take back the child”, or they will eventually have a child who is a totally confused product of a totally confused government or bureaucratic system

NUMBAT....

concentration camps..JUST LIKE HITLER ?

I'll resist the temptation to beautify my post with a few hundred question and exclamation marks, because I really do want this to be constructive.

Now.. u don't have to think too critically to realize that the resemblance between Auschwitz and Baxter is no further than the 'rectangular barracks with sloping roofs'.
Lawfully detained people are :
-FED well
-CLOTHED well
-PROTECTED from harm.
(with the notable occasional exception of from THEMSELVES... when some trouble makers take advantage for media/left wing fed political activism)
-CHILDREN mostly have access to external schooling, but also there are education opportunties within the centres.

Now, lets also be realistic.
1/ No one is trying to systematically kill, gas, cremate the detainees.
2/ They would not have to be there long, if they had reasonably reliable means of identification with them, OR.. if they can provide clear information about their origin and circumstances.
3/ Families are kept together.
4/ Those who end up detained for LONG periods of time, would usually be those who:
a) Deliberately Disposed of their papers/ID prior to arrival
b) Don't have any ID and therefore must be assessed with more effort.
c) Who have opposed the finding of the Government in determining if they are genuine and are using the system to its fullest extent to appeal and appeal and appeal..etc.
d) Have not given reliable information about their origin/circumstances.

Now..Numbat, without becoming emotional or side stepping or spinning... for each specific point raised above, can u refute it ?
If so.. give evidence/sources and be realistic, dont use some pie in the sky ideal which is not related to the real world when u consider it.

So, recapping what ALL of this one post is about, its about ONE point (of your many) where I believe you misrepresented the issue.
"Like Hitler"

Waiting for your careful and reasoned response.