Close, but no cigar, Timithy. At least you are on the right track. Boaz, you reveal a very slippery morality about truth in politics and I suggest it is you who need to come to grips with what is going on "today" by leaving the Hittites alone for a moment and reading the essay by Raimond Gaita "Breach of Trust: Truth, Morality and Politics", Quarterly Essay No 16 2004. Go on, I dare you.

Grace....
may that party without the sin of lying cast the first stone at BOAZ.......
That is my point......
I've been around long enuf to know them from all sides G, they are all slippery sods, at different times. Dont criticize ME for 'their' ethics grrrr.... I'm just saying I look at the bigger picture than some 'stunt' or beat up or whatever.. That does not mean I approve of lying to the public. But seeing as they ALL without exception do it, either by direct statement or by strategic ommision.. the political playing field is pretty 'level'.
Your not REALLY suggesting one party is 'more honest' than others... r u ?

grace, numbat and others suggesting that critical thinking will show that Howard, Bush are really dishonest eg.

>> From my reading, it is the apparent absence of critical thinking
>> in electoral politics that both Wayne Sawyer, and Professor
>> Raimond Gaita (in my posting above) are concerned about. That is,
>> given the lies and distortions that are our daily fare from the Bush
>> and Howard administrations with respect to the war in Iraq, not to >> mention "children overboard" etc, how is that such lies are not
>> recognised and rewarded at the ballot box with the boot.

You appear to routinely ignore the history of politicians on the Left of politics in dealing dishonestly with the voting public.

I am really unhappy about the lack of care about truth evident in the current Federal Government. I expected better from them. In terms of honesty they are behaving little (the "little" is a concession to my political bias) better than I would expect from a Labor government.

If I want to lodge a protest vote against dishonesty should I vote for a party where dishonesty seems to be normal fare rather than something that has only become a normal tool somewhat recently.

Please take a moment to apply some of that critical thinking to the various Labor Governments and oppositions of recent history and then tell me that on the issue of honesty the choice is clear.

Well Said Robert....
you highlight that the voices of criticism are really the voices of vested interest and agenda ! Good for Peter... good for Paul.. they all have track records, sadly the most vocal of Bush/Howard critics seem to forget this.

Imagine the outcry if a teacher academic argued that English teachers needed to re-double their efforts to teach students how to vote because of the dishonesty of the Keating Government. Mabo, the republic, multiculturalism and the policy on East Timor were all wrong and evidence that voters could not think clearly. I wonder why it never happened? Is it because the elites have their own agenda to run? Whatever the case, there is no room for political indoctrination on such controversial issues.

Kevin D

Kevin,
There would be lies, (or avoidance of the truth), and there would be indoctrination, which is slightly different. In the case of teachers, they would carry out forms of indoctrination or autosuggestion almost daily, as it is almost an essential part of teaching (eg teaching the alphabet though rhyme is like autosuggestion or mental programming).

In the case of politicians, there is a good example of attempts at brainwashing within speeches by President Bush at a web-site titled “Dubya Speak” . Within a speech, President Bush can go on a “freedom-fest”, or a “liberty-fest”, or a “nukyular-fest”, where he will repeat words such as freedom, liberty, or nukyular (nuclear) over and over. (NB. This has become of concern to some, as it may be that he believes freedom or liberty can only be won through a nuclear war. )

Of course teachers will repeat the same words over and over many times to get the students to remember something, and in effect they become masters of indoctrination. (Other people in society have become expert also such as feminists, who will continuously repeat words such as “choice”, “women and children” etc. like a type of mantra)

So if someone wants to indoctrinate the younger generation, teachers would be an ideal tool for that indoctrination. This is why I consider it essential that parents can at least get hold of the curriculum to see what is going on.

Unfortunately all my attempts at seeing the school's curriculum for my daughter have failed to date.