Wow! I'm so impressed. It never occurred to me when I first took up my virtual pen on this forum that I would meet such towering intellects, such incisive thinkers. And there was I, imagining that Australia was a thought-free zone. Silly me.

Before I go on, may I thank Aslan for his unintended compliment. I have never studied philosophy. As it happens, I even avoided having my brain washed by those wussie left intellectuals at university, so what you see is life experience, pure and simple. No academic fashionista stuff, just the result of going out and meeting people.

Despite this handicap, I have a working knowledge of the Greek philosophers and their different opinions. If I had to choose, I'd park my butt with the Epicureans - Plato was a bit too black-and-white for me, always trying to convince people that there was only one way to look at things. Plus ca change, huh?

I know you aren't listening Aslan, but just for the record, I did not say "reality is a construct of language". What I did say was that i) the folk who were bashing the idea didn't understand it and ii) trying to compress a complex thought process into a sound-bite is dangerous. So, by all means pop around and pour boiling water over my head. The knee you find connecting with your groin as you do so will also be a construct, formed from our dialogue.

As for you, ozaware, I'm excited to meet you. I love your website, although it needs less hysteria and more sober reflection - there are far better ones in the US that you could learn from. Here's one that has class: http://www.nationalvanguard.org/

What always puzzles me when I look through them - and you can perhaps help me out here if you have the time - is... what happens next?

I know it might seem a trivial question to you, but it is the same one that crosses my mind when I read a Green manifesto. Even if I were to agree with what you say, and we all go through the revolution - you with your "take back paradise" and the Greens with "save the planet" - you still have at some stage to live, as Aslan would say, in the real world. And what might seem a glorious ideal to you (or the Greens) might turn out to be a big mistake when we wake up the next morning and find that not everybody in that real world sees it our way. One of the abiding facts of Australian life is that we like it comfortable. Nice and easy, don't rock the boat, she'll be right comfortable. Just ask John Howard, he'll tell you straight: that's what they want, and don't you forget it.

One final thought for Aslan, if he gets this far. Your challenge to me went as follows:

"And if you really believe that there is no-one who can judge what is right or wrong or what is real then why are you on this forum arguing your case? You obviously think you are right and others are wrong.

But perhaps I am mistaken. If so, and you really do believe that it is impossible to judge what is real, then I expect to never ever hear from you on this or any other forum ever again. If you do continue to contribute then it will be clear to everyone that you are deceiver and a liar."

If this forum is only available to people who have already decided what they think, then yes, I'm in the wrong place. I happen to believe that discussing issues before making up my mind is a good thing. So for a start, I do not think I am right and others are wrong, and for seconds, I have been on this planet long enough to know that there are actually more questions than answers, so right now I'm in the majority.

And finally, I don't judge. I know that is a categorical statement, and sure, faced with that "how would you judge Hitler" chestnut, I would be happy to say yes, on overwhelming evidence he was a tyrant along with Stalin, Ghengis Khan, Vlad the Impaler and a few other blots on history. However, if we back off from the bleedin' obvious for a moment, in my view it is much harder to take the same tough stance on the minutiae of our existence. So I take the easy way out, don't leap to conclusions, and listen a lot. Receptus ignavorum, Mr Harden once told me, but hey.

Have a great day.

Pericles, I assume this will be your last post here, now that Godwin's Law has been invoked. I enjoyed the ride, and I hope we will see you again on OLO.

Absolutely, Grace. One has principles...

ASLAN..heel..heel :) ok..now ur back under control.. no more cups of hot water .. even on blessed Pericles, who..'does not judge' :)
I seem to recall a few barbs toward me about 'PB on the condecension scale' and.. "thats just arrogant" but hey.. it IS a nice day.. in fact..its a nice day to RETURN TO THE TOPIC... grrrr
You guys are getting too personal here.. Still, there was valuable stuff in all your posts.
As for language constructing reality. I don't agree.. we are confronted by reality.. events..and we find language to explain and interpret it. Enuf on that.

WHITE AUSTRALIA POLICY
I heard last night that Keith Windshuttle has come out with a book on the White Australia Policy, and he even goes so far as to say it was not a 'racist' view, because it mainly focused on the chinese rather than all asians. I've come to the view that the idea of a White Australia, or even a BLACK Australia, or a YELLOW Australia is a great idea. wooooo I hear the shouts. But looking at this in an objective way, based on human nature and human experience who in their right mind would recommend to Serbs to become 'fruitful contributing citizens in the middle of Kosovo' ??? or vice versa.


MONOCULTURAL AUSTRALIA
I would extend the 'white/black/yellow' idea to the current TOPIC, and for the same reasons. Islam/Judao Christian. Blind Nellie can see that the world secular humanists believe in does not actually exist outside the trendy leftist coffee shops. In the real one, identifiable communities compete for influence and slices of economic,cutlural and social cake. Has the issue of changing the language of education in some areas of the USA to Hispanic cropped up ? or am I imagining this ? The smart money is on those who would forsee such an event and who would control immigration and policy to prevent the subject ever even arising.
The more different those identifiable groups, the more they will compete. I actually think Homer Simpson may just be able to see this.

MULTICULTURAL DANGERS
When one significant difference happens to include the 'violent overthow of the bourgoise state or the establishment of the Kingdom of Allah and his Apostle in terms of the well established history and doctrinal basis of such groups... there is ample justification to have some of that smart money on people who can 'foresee, forwarn and forACT'

Pericles.. I note that ur taking some flack here brudder :) my sympathies, but one thing I know, is that this debate is healthy. (apart from knees in groins and cups of boiling water ..tut tut).. its bringing issues of great importance into a public arena.. and because it is serious debate..no one is going to te-RRT-orize us :)

WHAT NEXT: <== this was probably one of the most important questions raised in this session. For me, given that sufficient political consensus could be achieved, I would begin to modify the education program to mainstream the values agreed on. Specially in terms of Cultural identity. As for history, if we don't know how we got to 'here &now' I doubt that we will have much of a clue about getting to 'there & then'

PERICLES .. in all you have said that I can see, I dont find much by way of 'ALTERNATIVE' to what I and OZ and Azlan are suggesting.
waits.......

GRACE you are too 'full of it' :)
("Grace" that is..undeserved favor) u have hardly said a word here.. we need your maternal stare gazing at us through your posts.

and as for Godwin's law.. I invoke QUIRKS EXCEPTION :)