Grace, please state where in the Bible God tells His people to murder women and children.

again..for DMAC

You appear to be either blind (deliberately) or ignorant..(in which case it is not ur fault) in either case.. we should all look for 'truth' rather than 'what suits us'. Now..in regard to the claim that Mohammed was a 'paedophile' This was technically incorrect, but not far off the mark. The TRUTH is.. that 'under Australian Law, he would be jailed as a 'child abuser/molester'. Why ? because according to Hadith in respected Bukhari, and by confession of his favorite wife Ayesha.."I was engaged at 6...... and married at 9yrs old" Now.. this is not denied by Islam.. because it cannot be. (Though, I have seen an attempt.. arguments from silence) Ayesha was at the age of puberty when she actually married Mohammed. But one wonders WHY a 50+ yr old man, would want to marry a NINE year old girl ? Could he provide for and love her when she is even in her 30s ?.. So, claims such as u referred to are quite legitimate when seen under AUSTRALIAN law, and the laws of most other countries.
Now..for those who may think this is some kind of 'anti muslim spin'.. here is the quote /Hadith in full
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Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 58:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/sbtintro.html

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
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Australian Law provides as follows:
Crimes Act 1958

NSW CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 66B
Any person who attempts to have sexual intercourse with another person who is under the age of 10 years, or assaults any such person with intent to have sexual intercourse, shall be liable to imprisonment for 25 years.
Victorian Crimes Act 1958
(a) if the court is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the child was, at the time of the offence, under the age of 10, to level 2 imprisonment (25 years maximum)

The Commonwealth Marraige Act allows for a minimum Age to marry of 18, or 16 with a magistrates approval. The Migration Act is tied to the Marraige Act.

So, at least, it is true to say anyone marrying a child of 9, is a serious sexual offender under Australian law.

Even the founder of Wahabism who was married around 10, would have been married to a girl of similar age. But for a 50+ man to marry a 9 yrs old girl ? well.. draw your own conclusions about this.
Most Muslims would either not be aware of this, or simply explain or justify it in terms of 'Arab Culture' at the time. But it would be better for them to explain it humbly in terms of "I fully understand how disgusting this is for the modern Australian/Western value system"

Yet, I find not ONE reference in the whole of the Old Testament, (which includes reports of Incest and Adultery and murder), to any such incident. I find it difficult to accept that this was 'culture'. The Arabs are descended from Ishmael largely, a son of Abraham, from whom the Jews are also descended. Why would the cultures be so radically different ?

One more for DMAC
'How would you feel, if people described Jesus as a paedophile'
Well, IF...there was some actual evidence of this, it would be difficult to refute or feel anything other than 'its true'..but fortunately...there is no suggestion of such behavior, not in the canon and to my knowledge in the non canonical works of the time.
To be honest.. I have been living with Anti Jesus comments of the most 'vitriolic and perverted kind' for most of my Christian life. It goes with the territory ! The difference is, I actually realize that such comments are a cry of desperation and need. I don't 'hate' such people..I PITY them.

MORE....for DMAC
my goodness.. u are filled with MYTHS and misunderstandings it boggles the mind.
"To describe Mohammed as a paedophile is tantamount to saying the Old Testament promotes 'incest,rape etc etc' .. is simply not true.
Why ? The life of mohammed is held up as a ROLE MODEL he is glorified and looked to as the 'ultimate muslim'.. or.. am I wrong ?
The references in the Old Testament, to say "incest" are REPORTS of particular events.. NOT the 'approval' of them. You need to learn to distinguish between the 'Ethical/moral teaching' of the Old Testament and the historical reporting. Look for example at Kings and Chronicles.. they are FILLED with statements of awful behavior, murder, mass killings etc ..FOLLOWED by 'and thus king so and so did EVIL in the sight of the Lord.
So.. lets have 'truth' rather than 'pro Islamic spin' here ok :)

and one for GRACE ....
Grace.. I'm rather passionate about a lot of issues here.. as u might have already observed. But in response to your 'how would u feel' if some cleric declared all Christians are going to take over blah blah"
I would WELCOME such a statement. It would give an opportunity to share with people the REAL teaching of Scripture, that the kingdom of God is 'NOT' of this world. In spite of how 'organized' religion, (RC and Anglican, Orthodox) have grown into large worldly institutions. When it comes to assessing the Church.. always go back to the SOURCE code :)
Good for Christianity ...good for Islam. have a read of Quran Sura 23.5-6 it might give you an indication of what was taught as the 'norm' for 'The Believers' That is like the 10 commandments.. 'This is how you should live'..... and that sura says
Sura 23:5-6
http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/quran23.html (Quran Translation)

023.005 Who abstain from sex,

023.006 Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,

I thought about this, I cannot imagine a slave girl falling in love with a man who has been a party, directly or indirectly to the execution of her family during Jihad/war. Nor can I imagine her giving anything but the most begrudging consent to intercourse under duress. So... the question needing to be answered here.. is: "Is the Surah 23 meant to be 'abiding' or just for a short time ???

http://www.islamia.com/surah_023.htm claims....
"This Surah deals with the virtues which are the seed-bed of Faith"

and..Were any changes introduced to 'abrograte' this sura ? In fairness, Manumission of slaves was spoken highly of by Mohammed, as recorded in the hadith, but it doesn't change the fact that between taking of the slave and manumission (if they were lucky) they were 'doctrinally' available for sex to the owner, according to Surah 23.5-6.
This is not 'selective' apart from selecting the MOST relevant section which SPECIFICALLY relates to the 'norms of behavior for the Believing community'. If anyone doubts this, get on a chat line, and ASK muslims about how this sura should be interpreted.
MIRC server=dalnet chanel #Islam ask 'theorist' who is a knowledgable Arab.

BOAZ_David if you wish to talk about truth, how about the most basic one, that the fairy tales in both the torah, bible and quran are made up and as such need to be taken with a pinch of salt. To condemn someone for transgressing laws made 1000 years after they died is a bit moronic and even more so in this contexts. To say that that Arabs and Jews are descended from this abraham character and that their culture should therefore be the same, is to display your inability for logical thought. The cultures of the Cannites and the bedouin tribes were quite different. Cannites were farmers living in the green crescent while the Bedouin were nomadic for a start. The islamic movement adapted the old testament to their culture just as the christian have done to their cultures.

The taking of a wife of nine was not out of the ordinary for that period both in the culture in question and in many others including many sanctioned by the christain church. In actual fact the quran is unique out the three story books in the it gives accounts from female perspectives. To say that there is no mention of women this young getting married in the bible is to fail to mention that the bible rarely mentions the age of any other details about women. AS for your assertion that the bible does not condone any incest then I think you have not read it, there are many examples I give you one, your mate abraham married his sister Gen 17:15-16. Since we are talking about abraham, he is a central figure in all of faiths after all, I wonder what does his willingness to kill he own son for a voice he hears in his head say about the various jewish sects ?