David JS – sorry meant to state “...vague and equivocal terms” – falling asleep here and making typo errors

Mike and Jimmy, can we assume that your version of "family values" is similar to that outstanding right wing commentator from the USA, Pat Robertson, who wrote the following in a 1992 fund-raising letter:

"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians".

The quotation is from a book by David Brock, entitled "The Republican Noise Machine: Right-Wing Media and How it Corrupts Democracy", (Crown Publishers, 2004, available from Amazon).

To clarify my view of family values. Family values means mothers and fathers don't have to work ridiculously long hours for half decent pay. It means gay and lesbians families receive the same respect and benefits as other families. It means freedom from domestic violence and rape in marriage. It means flexible working hours and high quality cost effective day care for children. It means high enough wages so families can be provided for. It means permanent full-time jobs that mean parents and their dependents have economic security. It means expansion of Medicare to cover all health problems - both for children and adults.

Now, is John Howard, Fred Nile or Families First articulating these policies? If so, I'm a social conservative.

Jimmy I don't think you read what I said... "Communism is mans natural state ask a anthropologist it just don’t work very well when your commune gets so big you don’t know everyone about 150 people max." Now do you notice what I say here it's doesn't work when the size of the commune is greater then 150 people. So how is my statement a lie? Try rereading the rest of what I said and give a rational reply. Mike I see you didn't explain to us all how the US civil war ended slavery in the world. The extremes of both sides of politics causes great problems extreme left turns us all into worker bees and the right anarchy. But to believe nothing good comes for the left is mindless and visa vi. Trade unions gave power to the ordinary worker and with it they won a greater share of the wealth and a better standard of living for all. The problem people like mike and jimmy have is they forget that the notion of democracy was a lefty idea.

I scanned with little amazement or attention to content at the 22 or so odd postings initiated by Kevin Rudds comments of the Religious right and values. I cannot therefore pass comment therefore on what was said. I can however pass comment on the heat the topic seems to raise amongst the various news and comment watchers who read and contribute to these pages and indeed to the letters pages of or dailies.

Religion as a topic of discussion and debate is always nipping at the heels of mainstream debate on most social and political matters. The emergence of families first with its religious under pinning generated quite a bit of media ink and chat after the last election. And let's not forget the redoubtable Fred Nile who has been waving the religious flag in political circles for some time and I always felt Pauline Hansons party had a ring of religion about it as well.

The recent tsunami and its after math also generated heated exchanges in the newspapers with religios leaders urging waivering believers to stand firm in the face of catastrophe, while at the same time, in response another crop of letter writers where telling us all this religion was a waste of time and we should just get on with the job.

So which ever way you look at it the god question is out there big time; often it merely sits beneath the surface of debate and discussion but often it percolates to the surface and takes a lot of people by surprise.

Most Australian would prefer to divulge their masturbatory habits than reveal any tendency to a religious beliefs; there are some exceptions. But often , particularly in public life people admit to a "spiritual dimension" to their lives but no adherence to a religious tradition - sort of a bet each way.

Religion is part of the human condition. It may be a stupid part. it may be illogical and at times damaging. The same could be said of sex or football fanatacism. But is will always be in the public arena. It will always impact on legislation effecting some ones life and possibly liberty. It just has to be dealt with.

Inkeemagee

The posts on this page—as well as Kevin Rudd’s essay itself—overwhelmingly confirm the point I make in the overview to the Oz-Aware Project (http://www.oz-aware.com/overview.htm). People make comments and observations about matters of which they clearly have only the most rudimentary comprehension---if any at all.

For example DavidJS tells us that he is a homosexual who is ‘sick and tired’ of ‘family values’ being shoved down his throat. David, you need to wake up to the reality that, historically, the only social systems that have allowed homosexuals at least a reasonable right to live in safety with little fear of persecution has been those based on the Judeo-Christian values (aka 'Family Values’). Let me suggest that if Judeo-Christianity fails, you’ll be wetting your daks before very long. In all other social systems the society itself has either collapsed into violence and barbarism (think Greek and Roman empires) or homosexuals have been hated and hunted down.

Dave, go sprout your pearls of wisdom and strut your homosexual stuff in places like Iran and see how many rocks are immediately headed for your head.

It’s the (ahem) fundamental reason why more than twice as many homosexuals (about 2 million – are there than many in total in Australia?) voted for President George Bush this time as compared to the previous election. Which confirms what I’ve always suspected: notwithstanding the large number of highly visible and vocal moronic homosexuals around, there are many homosexuals who are intelligent and properly understand which side of the bread is best for their being able to live a buttered life.

Grow up Davie, educate yourself—get some independent thinking habits—and stop mouthing those tired old lying cliches that can so easily be blown away by historical truth and grounded reality.

Thanks to grace pettigrew (lower cases intended) for yet again proving what so many have perceived about SLwDBTtbCCL’s (Secular Leftists who Delusionally Believe Themselves to be ‘Compassionate, Caring’ Liberals’).

How ‘compassionate’ is the person who has an epithet for every one who has a belief contrary to hers—“The Bomber” and “crazed, god-bothering Bush” are classic examples—not to mention her gratituous insult directed at the decent by the lower-case ‘g’ in God.

Hers is the dangerous mindset driven by an ideology that, when powerless, relentlessly despises, demeans and denigrates its opposition.

When powerful, it imprisons or simply kills its opposition.

And grace, when you present the new South Africa as a secular paragon to be much admired and duplicated, does that indicate your delight that, statistically, one in every two women in that country will be raped in her lifetime. You must be overjoyed with their truly frightening rates of infant rape since the ‘good’ people obtained their freedom from the ‘bad’ people who made damn sure—sometimes at terribly politically incorrect cost—such things almost never happened on their watch.

Excuse me grace, but your idiocy is not just showing, it covers you from toe to cranium. Perhaps you should read http://www.oz-aware.com/askfor.htm, but I doubt you’d even remotely understand, so blinded by false ideology are you.

Other commentators may as well lighten up on Kevin Rudd. He is no Christian, even if he has genuinely convinced himself that he is. Not even close and a perfect example of either manifest delusion or stunning political cunning. True Christians do not encourage secularism—a 'sweet' word for ‘Godlessness’—much less belong to, support and seek to advance a group that aggressively promotes it. If he were a Christian, he’d sure be bringing new meaning to the expression ‘sleeping with the enemy’!

There are many other reasons why Mr. Rudd fails the Christian standard, but this post is long enough. Many of those who should read http://www.oz-aware.com/overview.htm will see themselves in its mirror!