I was enjoying reading this article until unfortunately I found some incorrect details. I suggest you review your article and sources as sloppy information you have obtained has offended me. This is ironic as you suggest the media (since this article was printed is also considerd media) has alot to answer for...
Thank you.

I wholeheartedly agree with songstress, fact does seem to have evaded "your opinion".
As for the Bra Boys, Oh Pah Lease, get over it. Not only did you get the mans name wrong, but you haven't even bothered to update and note, he has been acquited of all charges.
By the way, it's Jai Abberton. But that demonstrates the accuracy of the entire topic. At the time of writhing this, did you stop to consider the poor souls that have been murdered in Bali and the threat we now face of an attack on our own soil. Shame on you. I'm Australian and proud, and I don't think I have to appologise to someone who has migrated here and then decides they won't accept our lifestyle.
Australians have over the years integrated well with all migrants that arrived on our shores, they themselves are now Proud Australians, unlike yourself.
Stop protecting a minority of religous zelots that violently refuses to integrate into Australian society in a graceful manner.

M-ates A-ffiliation R-eign 0-ffshore U-ntouchable B-rothers R-oyal A-dherent..... eyyyy 2035 4life :P... what do you have to say about the bashing of the 2 life savers?

How many fair goes do our lebanese community need?Raping Australian women,bashing and murdering Australian men(The murder of Two South sydney footballers outside Five dock hotel in 1998)I ask the good Doctor if he has ever come across a gang of Lebanese on a Saturday night at Darling Harbour?Ausralians have had tolerance rammed back down their throats for long enough.These racist Lebanese have attacked Ausralia and Australians for far too long,and if the good doctor would just asked the gang rape victims who are the real people who are not getting a fair go I'm positive he would change his mind,providing he can take his head out of the sand!

Paul you are 100% right.

Do not heed the rubbish written above. The media have harmed race relations enough in this lifetime.

The posts entered above have clearly indicated to me the intensity of racism and ignorance of some idiotic people living in Australia. These people that have posted are just uneducated people who hear about a few incidents through the media and get sucked in by all the mumbo jumbo. Why don't you people read the facts you morons. Then you will see the comparison of so - called lebanese gang violence compared to Anglo - Austrlian violence. You talk about Lebanese men being rapists over a couple of incidents over the last few years, why dont you look at the stats and realise that it is our own Austrlian brothers who have a phenomanal number of rapes under their belts.

I suggest you people grow some brains - especially you - BRABOY you LOSER - wake up to yourself and thank the ethnic community for increasing the value of the Australian economy and stop persecuting a whole race because a few bad seeds.

Ha! Kai Abberton get it right-Jai- and what does Jai Abberton's court case have do with this racial violence? He is a Bra Boy so what. The details in this report are questionable.
BRA BOYS ROCK :P
2035 4EVA

Lebanese gangs are terrorising Sydney,Melbourne and lately the Gold Coast. What the good doctor will fail to realise from his safe abode in what is most certainly the north shore is that these thugs are involved in an urban jihad and because him and his ilk are involved in this multicultural facade and along with muslims are paid to shout down anyone who sees through the great lie of same. Shame on you and all your lefty mates, bloody traitorous and unAustralian and in the future your opinions will be laughed at.. Disgusted to have to share this great country with you and your mates at the national university.

Chuck80
you seem to have missed a few important points.

When white boys rape girls they do it because they are 'girls'.
The issue with the Muslim pack rapes was the specific racial taunt element. You lack of admission of this is either deliberate (and therefore malicious) or naive and forgivable.

You also are probably not aware that around 1999-2001 gun related crime in Sydney overall decreased. But in that SAME period, gun related crime in Sydney's southwest more than DOUBLED. I saw this in a government report.

Have you been asking yourself about the politics of all this ?

Lets try one: Why were there a number of Lebanese youths flashing GUNS on national TV showing the camera crew, yet we have heard nothing of arrests for this ? Yet, some poor anglo who has a 'branch' in Penrith (of all places) is arrested,tried, convicted and jailed for 4 months.

With the Premier being member for Lakemba... does it not strike you as "interesting" that police action on crimes such as the above in that area is kinda noteworthy for its ABSENSE ?

Did you see the interview with the Muslim counsellor who told the reporter that the Muslim boys regarded themselves as 'superior' to skips and that they hated the west ?

I don't think any of us 'hate' the Middle east. Nor do we think we are 'superior' racially. The simple point is that we have an established culture and intrusions are not welcome. People who fit INTO that culture are always welcome. Anti social behavior is not.

The professor forgot the Comancheros, a leb majority bikie gang and participators in the Milperra Massacre.

Their peace pact with the Bra Boys (over the 1 afternoon of Cronulla multicult riots and the week or more uber-violence of the Leb gangs) was one of the most sickening things I have seen, “peace our way or we kill you…“

Our media is so crippled by PC they cant even comment on this, nor can our police investigate it, neutered by PC Multicult intimidation and violent retribution.

This guy is preaching this reverse racism at the Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies, University of Sydney Marxist training camp.

Why wasn't lakemba locked down?
why can't we say Lebonese or Muslim in the press anymore?
Why dotn we hear about the Anglo Multicult rioter who is now in
hiding from death threats?

So many questions,

i used to think it was islam ruining Australia, which is so easy going, but as has been suggested on here before, the PC are much
more of a problem.

can you imagine a PC free world, islam would topple in any civilized country with in a year.

Oh yea and anyone who comes up with "imagine" a world by john lennon well should remember he was a millionare safe from the results of PC idealism.

Dr Paul White's comments are valid.
The majority of the comments posted relating to it
clearly show why there is a problem.
The young men are Australian!
The culture and blood of their parents will ensure
Australia a rich future.This country will flourish
with a cultural richness beyond compare.
Smile and these young Australians will smile
back.

thats not cool these people have caused trouble for as long as anyone can remember this is a clear case of bias in the media and as for the bra boys first get the name right jai not kai and consider the side effects of the cases having a very good surfer dragged into court for an accesory charge koby didnt deserve that all because of lebanese people starting things they need not have the bra boys are nothing more than a group of mates who like to drink and surf fair go for them not the lebs

Orlando, that was a mouthfull of absolute bile.

"Smile and they will smile back at you" ?

Sure.. the nice ones, but the hard core gang/thug type who feel they are superior to us, (as clearly stated by the Muslim counsellor who told us on National TV.) who think they can spit in Anglo's food at Cronulla, then then when there is a reaction, they go in a huge 'gang' to trash cars and streets, and in their 'bravery' from the darkness, carrying all manner of weapon, shout out to Skips in their homes to come and face them !

Well, I for one am ready anytime to face those morons who went to Maroubra, and if any have the balls to identify themselves, we can have a "lively discussion" about the matter. One on One..or..if they prefer, they can have 3 and I'll still stay 'one'. I went to Sydney (from Melbourne) a week or 2 back and walked solo past the Lakemba mosque, and drove through Telopea street, and visited some malls, and went to Cronulla, quite ready to accomodate anyone (or any number) who wished to demonstrate a physical dislike against me due to my white skin and I totally assure you that it would not be like the bashing of poor Steve in Maroubra by the 20+ Leb Muslims.

I'm trying to get hold of the security footage of that attack to use in self defense instruction courses. Am thinking seriously of organizing regional 'independant security units' who can respond quickly to any attack in defense of life and property. Lawfully of course.

The image which is etched in my retina is that of a muslim thug screaming luridly out of a car on Tv that he was going to 'rape my mother' (i.e. all of our mothers). That kind of thing cannot go unchallenged, and it wont. The 'Emporer' wields the sword to deter the evildoer, sometimes the citizens have to pitch in.

Boaz that would have to be some of the truest writing on the matter i have ever read!

these lebs went down Maroubra and started attacking that didnt belong to them or have the same colour skin as them 200+ of them so don't try to tell me that they don't hang around in gangs. if it wasn't for the quick thinking of the locals in the pub some people would have seroiusly been hurt. if they want to start stuff like that on us when they are so seroiusly outnumbered then there likely to get bashed and noone should stick up for these gang prone lebs normal muslim lebs are fine and decent people but these gangsters arent and Boaz had a good piont something needs to be done.

david b, your comparison of my comment and support of Dr White's
opinions to bile or load thereof is an interesting one from a bio-chemical point of view.Your method and means of self expression speak with no uncertainty for themselves which given the level of literacy therein placates me totally.Please have a look at Jane Elliots site and perhaps venture into Gertrude Stein's world.If someone believes what they are saying is 'right' then it is.So you
see if you actually look at anything from someone elses point of view
you will see their point.To refuse yourself this luxury is to deny evolution.Now a clever fellow such as yourself would never do such a thing surely.

By the way eveyone I am still confused by the use of the term
'leb'.To whom do some of you refer? Is this per chance a reference
to Australians of Middle Eastern descent?

Dear Orlando, I didn't mean the 'bile' comment as anything personal, I intended to convey the meaning of what bile does. ie.. the stomach juices which breakdown the food. In a similar way, the 'softly softly' smile at them approach breaks down our neccessary defences for certain types of thuggish individual in the Lebanese Muslim community. (no, they aren't 'ALL' like that, but we know from the revenge attack and police files that many ARE)

That also answers your question about 'who' is meant by 'Leb'. Yes, of course it 'could' mean anyone of middle eastern appearance, but anecdotally and 'at street level' I think it means mainly the 'thug' type who would think nothing of attacking anyone of white/anglo background in packs of 4 and more with absolute brutality.

There is good reason to believe this, as experience has shown from many reports in the media and from those who have encountered this in daily life.

I don't find anywhere near the level of reports (I don't recall even ONE) of Anglo thugs attacking Australians of middle east appearance with the exception of the Cronulla incident, which of course was shameful and regrettable in that 'anyone' of middle east appearance was targeted by Anglo 'thugs' and white supremacists.

I am involved in self defense training which focuses on one man dealing with 3 attackers at a time, 4 at a stretch. Had Steve known these methods, he may not have suffered the beating and broken arm from an iron bar he did at Maroubra.

We will be making video's of this defense training and it will be available to interested parties in due course. Main focus 'simplicity/effectiveness...no decorations' something like the Israeli Krav Maga, but incorporating many useful techniques from various other disciplines.
check this link out for the all time best roundhouse kick I've seen :)
http://media.putfile.com/Moon-Tae-Kwon-Do-Korea-vs-Greece
This one for effective gun/knife defense
http://www.kravmagaco.com/videos.php (some sublinks don't work)

i believe the word leb is used to brand only the thugs who attacked others of non middle eastern appearance not standard muslim lebanese people. the use of the derogatory term leb to all middle eastern people is unacceptable as most of them are no tcausing trouble.

I thought i would get back to poking holes in this article. It is obvious that th edoctor has done next to no research on this matter especially when it comes to the Bra Boys. He starts by not even saying Jai's name correctly then goes on to say that the bra boys were instigators. Ha the bra boys probably saved some peoples lives when a convoy of lebs came through most ran but the Boys went out of the pub and fought the leb pigs off this was the night thta over 100 cars were trashed by the same convoy so get your facts straight dr white.

jkid..bra boy..bra babe.. are u there ? I'd love to have a bit of email interaction with you all about this matter...

Jkid... u seem to know a bit about what happened that night of the revenge attack.. I'm so glad the Bra boys did find in themselves the Kokoda spirit and actually try to defend the area.. bravo !

If any of you are in the area ... or know those, and have current information on any events, goings on, attitudes among the Anglos to whether the situation has changed at all, for better, worse or same old same old.. I'd love to hear from any of you.

jdrmot@tpg.com.au

It might be possible with some cunning actions to flush out these morons who attacked and get them to even identify themselves without realizing it.

I spoke to NSW police last night, regarding the understanding of 'riot' 'Affray' etc..and came up with some interesting results.

Self defense is legally much safer now for the defender, with the onus on the prosecution to 'prove' ill intent, rather than the defendant to 'prove its absense'. (for example, if the attacker happened to get a broken neck in the course of the attack)

Hope to hear from you.
Cheers

That is slightly extreme but in some cases warranted was i the only person who didn't see any coverage of the revenge attacks on TV? also no footage of lebs being arrested. By the way boaz the mood is still one of anger but the people have followed the lead of people like the Bra Boys and stopped being open about a hate that many still have. It would take another attack on an Australian icon for the same sort of reaction to occur. But this time no Bra Boys or Comanchereos would stop the violence and maybe the cowards that attacked old white men as revenge would show there cowardly faces and then the fight would be over as the white majority would have had justice.

Any further comments on this issue can be posted and i will read and reply unless your orlando who needs his head checked your faith in humanity is astonishing.

Dear Jkid
thanx so much for that.
As long as people restrict their hate to those who actually did the attacking, and any who sympathize with them, they are on the high moral ground. There is of course no room to tar all Muslim Lebanese with the same brush, and I hope I've not given that spin in my own posts.

I found footage of the revenge attack, the one which most effects me, and here it is (on an american site)

http://media.putfile.com/Corolla35

Take care..

Dear Boaz that was just proving our point they(lebs) do congregate in gangs and if it wasnt for the Bra Boys then that man and many like him may have been alot worse off and the fact that still no-one has been arrested is atrocious. I saw his story on 60 minutes a couple of months after the riots and the footage still has the same effect on me it inspires hate to those who carry out such attacks. As i said before the lebanese concerned should show themselves and just let the people fight it out that way no revenge attacks will occur because they will all be in hospital or a morgue.

Imagine this :)....

Hand out pamphets in strategic locations to those of 'thug' appearance.. declaring that those involved in the Maroubra revenge attack have "No balls, are total cowards, and are absolute scumbags. If they have any balls at all, they should come and meet us at Punchbowl Park (their home turf) at x o'clock this saturday night, for a discussion of their lowly status".....

It would not surprise me if some of them actually turned up.. or at least those who are of a similar nature.

Needless to say, police would need to be warned in advance :)

I read in one account (news) where on the day of the Cronulla protest, a car load of leb thugs was actually present.. one stepped out of the car and challenged the crowd to a fight, he got his wish and was hussled off bleeding from a number of places ...but I mean.. what an idiot...

Yep that about sums up these people dumb as an ox.
but that idea could have some weight behund it but dont just inform police also inform some of the people who were at the riots wham instant victory to the anglos as these lebanese people would bring like 50 guys to make sure one dosen't get hurt so you bring about the same amount and let human nature do its thing problem solvered.

Sounds interesting.

I have another thought which I'd like to explore one day.

Re-enact the attack at Maroubra, with actors. This time though the 'Steve' character is highly trained and knows how to deal with that first attacker and then use his limp body as a shield against the others. The resulting video could be circulated among those who have passionate feelings about self defense against repeat episodes.

I've passed the attack video out to a number of my friends at our gym to get their feedback.

I approached one skilled friend acting as if I had a baseball bat, and he took the que and responded with a beautiful side kick which, if delivered seriously would have disabled me b4 my 'waddy' hit him.

If you have any friends in the Cronulla/Maroubra area, please pass out my email and invite them to dialogue on the matter of self defense and/or regional defense teams.

I take your point about them bringing all the 'rellies' and extended ethnic networks/associates/gang members with them.. this always needs to be considered when ambarking on any activism.

One thing I'm wondering, is why the police haven't threatened with jail the one dude the KNOW who was in the middle of that attack (The one at the end who urged them to stop killing Steve).. he MUST know at least 4-5 others who went because they came in a car,and I'll bet he knows who was in the car WITH him on the way..
I cannot imagine either that he tagged along to STOP the violence.. he must have been intent on malicious damage as well but baulked at murder.

cheers

Yeah thats true he would have had unpure intentions to go in the first place. if they bring there gang homies one call can get some of the former shire boyz down there and i can guarantee that they would be quite keen on blood to be spilt. so it is a good possibility that it would finish there. either that or more revenge attacks in which the Bra Boys would have to defend people like steve and others like him again and another riot might even start which is not good.

will be interested to hear your thoughts.

cheers

Jkid.. my thoughts are as follows:

It would be in the interests of the locals of Cronulla and all beach suburbs to
1/ form networks of communication, so that as u say, one phone call can be sent to a couple of people who can do the same to a few more etc.
2/ Groups drawn from gyms and sporting clubs could be included.
3/ Self defense training should be done on
a) The Philosophy (i.e. not about race hate, but defense against thuggery)
b) The skills (these should be taught by those with a practical knowledge of street fighting not some Sensei who is out to make money)

c) The legal side (The technical nature of self defense and where the line between self defense and 'affray/riot' is crossed)

4/ An exercise or 3 should be done to test the comms skills and logistics of it.

5/ Some intelligence gethering capability would be advisable also.

Quite important to know what is happening early to allow for preventive measures. Natually the first measure is to alert police to anything of concern, but I would not hold my hopes up that they can do much in such a short time. They seemed to arrive after the fact to pick up the pieces during Cronulla.

Genghis Khan had a few clues. He insisted that each province or village have 1000 men in continual training and on standby for call up as needed. If each major suburb had 50- 100 guys..
Cronulla, Brighton Le sands, Bondi, Maroubra Manly etc etc..

All they would need is a code word and a location by sms to indicate what is happening and where.

That would work as a self defence measure but who to lead this crew? everyone there needs to know how to fight but also need to be cool calm and calculated. because if not my personal experience has taught me that psychos go to far and end up hurting people that dont need to so we need to make sure the people are there for the right reasons not to just hurt people but to help each other in case of more attacks. thats it not attacking or we would be as low as them. the idea of having guys everywhere is ok but a bit hard as the core group of people would have to be the best and just send msgs to all there mates it would work but it would cause a riot.

Exactly !

careful screening of attitudes would be crucial.
Some unsavory people might see such a thing as an opportunity to be in a 'gang' of their own.

Nothing of this kind could be either right or effective if such elements were allowed to be a part of it.

There was a Cronulla businessman who came up with some rather 'colorful' ideas about blocking off the main entry/exit points to Cronulla, but it was a bit over the top and knee jerk.

I don't know what approach would work. But I think it would have to be along personal network lines to ensure people knew how others were thinking.

Alternatively, one could form a mini constitution outlining the foundation points, such as no racial overtones, or superiority aspects.
If it was racial there would be the problem of 'lets get em' like the morons did at Cronulla (the fringe ones I mean) where anyone of a particular appearance was 'got'. In the Lebanese community there are wonderful people, and there is also Christian and Muslim. We know from which segment most of the trouble came as per the public record.

When foundation principles are established, a letter box drop advertizing a public meeting could be done to see if any response.
Leadership would be best from those with a good track record, possibly even with military background.

In a way, it could be done along lines of the Emergency Services, which indeed it would be. But the key points would be rapid response and good communication, strong discipline.

Cheers

Paul White is a useless academic with too much time on his hands. His is enjoying basking in the warmth of his compassion and understanding of the Lebs. I challenge him to send his children (if he has any of school age) to schools such as Punchbowl Boys' or related schools in the area. I suppose being the warm and tolerant left wing academic he is any children of his would be safely enrolled in a trendy and/or private schools. My experience (as a teacher) with Muslim Lebanese males has been depressing to say the least. They have shown themselves to be the most racist, intolerant lot I've encountered in 30 years of teaching in Sydney. I have witnessed & known of countless bashings & stabbings of young men simply because they are skips and sexual harrassment cases of young girls because they are Aussies. The primitive gang mentality behaviour of many Muslim Lebanese men has no place in Aussie society. Why don't Buddhists or Hindus go around bashing and raping and shooting up churches? They are simply more tolerant and evolved.

bra boys? Unfortunately the only image this brings to my mind is a group of wannabes dressed in their mum's frilly knickers!

Anniel and Bra-less.....

I refer you to my recent posts in this thread.... Please give them some consideration.... read between the lines...

If you have networks... use them to the fullest.
If you need hints on effective self defense against multiple attackers.. u will find my email in one of the last few posts.

There is no value in repeating the same complaints (which many of us including me have done both in this forum and among friends)... in the light of the attack on our culture and freedom, it is well past time for other approaches (within the law) to be made.

Happy to interact with you on this.
Cheers

what a load of racist tripe you all produce and are.

Its Jai Abberton, not Kai Abberton.

david boaz, you really are a dangerous piece of homophobic racist crap.I used your posts for a class of children in Britain recently and they fell about laughing until I reminded them that people as ignorant as yourself actually exist here in Australia.Given our mixed racial backgrounds they still fell about laughing!
May you come to grief on one of your mosque rounds little man.

Dear Orlando
I appreciate your persistence to denigrate :) but thats ok.

I'm interested very much in this little exercise you did with the children in Britain... which I guess means you work there as a teacher ?

I'm glad you used one of my posts, but I am a little concerned that you might have chosen one in isolation from the bigger picture, which may have given an inaccurate representation of my position.

You have descibed me as 'racist' on a few occasions, and added expletives.. (not a good recommendation for your own ethics I'm afraid).... I'm happy to interact and dialogue with you on that particular point... so please email me on jdrmot@tpg.com.au
and we can clarify the issue.

I have a feeling you don't exactly understand where I'm coming from, and I'd like to know on what basis you call me 'racist'. Do you call 'minority' ethnic groups 'racist' when they act in certain ways or is 'racist' a tag you reserve only for 'white' people ?

I'd love to know what the area was where the children are, and their racial and religous mix if you don't mind sharing that ?

I did some activism myself the other day. Went to RMIT and displayed a poster of a PLO massacre of Christians. 500+ slaughtered, and 25,000 ethnically cleansed (Damour/Lebanon). 2 people stopped to chat, one a white bloke and the other a black bloke from Somalia (a muslim) both were warm and congratulatory in manner towards me.

Hope to hear from you soon.
Cheers
Boaz

Dear Orlando

just one more thing if I may....

Concerning my rather 'vigilante' approach to security in Cronulla etc...

I rang the police in Melbourne yesterday, regarding how they would defend free speech and the right to peaceful, lawful protest in a public place and his attitude was this.

"If there is a raging mob of Lebanese, or Palestinians, out to attack you, I'll arrest YOU and drag you off, I won't be a punching bag between you and them" (word for word)

He said this in the context of "There will not be many police at this event"... which raises the question of...'why' ?

That was from the special event officer. Now.. with attitudes like that, can you see any hope for individual 'white' blokes in the face of a crowd of middle east thugs ? (as opposed to peaceful middle east people)

I don't know of you have been to Sydney, but its a bit difficult to speak with any understanding about the issues I'm referring to unless you have experienced it.

If an ethnic/religous group in the UK told you (because of your skin color.. white) that you CANNOT goto the rock pools of a particular beach because it is for 'their' women, would you be ok with that ?

Can you imagine the reaction if a British 'bobby' was set upon by a middle east mob, and beaten half to death ? I think a 'Bobby' is an icon like our Life Savers...

I have a feeling the 'racism' is on the other foot here mate... discriminating against people at a beach because they are 'not' Muslim is out and out racism and even worse, it is an attack on our fundamental freedom of association, an attack on the state.

one post,with so many gems available! as for the police,what do they have to do with the law? teacher?long way off.the staggered growth of this colony is fascinating to many others so much more advanced.consider the origins of this 'forum' and you may be a little closer to some enlightenment.

Hi there Orlando
I'll provide an update on my visit to the demonstration, it went quite well actually, and I managed to speak with the very policeman who I'd previously contacted by phone.. He turned out to be a nice bloke.
The demo was a total fizzer.. they only managed about a 100 people.
I chatted with a few of the organizers and clearly they are quite ignorant of anything except what they have been spoon fed by their manipulators.
You haven't emailed me yet...I'm waiting.
Perhaps you don't understand exactly where I'm coming from or the exact nature of our Australian conditions, which vary from City to city and state to state.

I noticed on the news today that the number of Muslims being suveilled is not in the 10s or 100s, but in the THOUSANDS.. (In UK I mean).
I think its pretty safe now to actually 'guarantee' that we will have an increasing polarization of our society, with Muslims becoming more and more marginalized by their own religious notions and by our reaction to them.

The 13 men who's comittal hearing I attended here (Melbourne) have now been actually committed for trial, the magistrate considered there is enough evidence.

I think you are confusing 'racism' with an alert and vigilant attitude to our own national security.

[Deleted for flaming.]

As a young man of Middle Eastern decent and of Islamic religion I must disagree with the Doctors overall rationale of this contentious issue.

No one in the city of Sydney can deny that no other ethnic minority in this country has been involved in as much criminal activity as the young Lebanese males of Sydney. One just needs to socialise within nocturnal Sydney on Friday and Saturday nights to see the atrocities committed by SOME NOT ALL Lebanese Islamic youths.

They have no respect for themselves, Australia, Islam, females, males, the law, their nationality or their families.

They are the offspring of the militant filth and scum and that was allowed immigrate here in the midst of the Lebanese civil way in the 1970’s and 1980’s under and lenient Fraser and Whitlam government.

These animals would be on the end of a hangman’s noose if they were in Lebanon. Most of Telopea Street has been populated by members of the Lawless Hill Tribes of North Lebanon.

So let’s get real here, this is a specific sub culture of our Middle Eastern community. We all despise these thugs. I and my family left Bankstown because of the crime and fear generated by these dirt bags.

With all this aside we must realise that a lack of law enforcement is the real the issue here. Animals like this of what ever nationality need to be jailed. All good Middle Eastern people of Australia whether they are Islamic or Christian want a peaceful safe environment for themselves and their families.

what planet does orlando inhabit?

Dear Erhan
Well said.

Speaking as one who is passionately advancing the cause of self defense and organized lawful resistance to such thuggery, I am fully aware of the fact that not all the Muslim community is represented by the violence and anti social behavior which occurred at Cronulla and other places.

What I would like to know though, is if you have ever come across groups of muslim males kind of 'claiming' the Rockpool area at Cronulla and trying to keep others out of it, so Muslim women can bathe without non muslim males in the close vicinity ?

If you are aware of it, or even if not, what is the feeling among those you know concerning such a thing ? (have a chat to some family)
I'm not just making this up, I have it from a number of independant sources.

But I don't like the idea of young middle eastern men yelling obscenities at Aussie girls. Nor do I like young anglo males ripping hijabs off Muslim girls.I prefer all of us to work toward a cleaner and less permissive society. But one in which you are free to say what you like about my Lord Jesus, (no matter how offensive, as long as it is true) and I can say what I like no matter how offensive (as long as it is true) about your prophet.

This is fundamental to a free society. In my other posts, I do attack Islam, and I welcome any attack on Christianity, all I ask is that it be true. I don't reach for a gun when my faith is attacked, I explain it, and pray for them.

The most frightening words to come out of our courts recently, from Lawyers representing the Islamic council of Victoria against 2 Christian pastors were these "Truth is not a defense".. scary stuff.

As for Orlando, he can write to me by email anytime, then his obcene words won't be deleted here :) I think he is from "Planet Blinker"

David I feel the problem has been exacerbated by this countries obsession to pander and "given in" to the minorities.

When you come to Australia or any other country to live, you must assimilate and respect that countries laws and values.

To a large extent many Middle Eastern Muslims like my family and me have done this with no issues. But we have this small minority of "grubs & thugs" who will not respect any Australian laws, values or culture.

They are a law unto themselves.

No "Rock-Pool" should be for the exclusive use of Muslim women. If they don’t like, then they should not go swimming or go to a country where that view is accepted.

You see this is the whole problem. You cannot change your values for minorities. They must accept and change or go somewhere else.

As an educated Muslim I would also like to state that Keyser Trad and the Mufti Hilali are not representative of the Lebanese Muslims in Sydney or Australia. They are self proclaimed political opportunists who have done nothing for our community except give us a bad name by openly supporting terrorists in the recent Sydney protests.

Let’s get real and get some real leaders into our community

the only grubs in this country seem to be white.rock pools,hijabs,what a microcosm of thought.rockpools,evolution, get it!

Thanx Erhan
cheers mate.

Orlando... what are you on about.. or just on? :)

being a young lebanese australian, i can empathise with a lot of what has been said in this article. noneltheless, looking over people's previous comments, i can understand how a lot of the negative stereotypes, particlularly toward young lebanese australians are generated. I am not ignoring the fact that young lebanese australians have commited heinous crimes; i completely agree, they are shameful and deserve harsh punnishment. the thought of gang rape seriously disgusts me... but the thing that annoys me most is that quite a few people judge the whole lebanese community's actions based on just a few of these idiot's actions.

i come from a family who have integrated into australian society and have accepted and embraced the australian lifestyle... I am a third generation lebanese here, and no one in my family, or anyone i know for that matter have done anything seriously beyond the law.

people need to stop judging all of us. every culture has their fair share of bastards.

VRM... I feel it is important to point out that you have little to worry about.
I don't see many people tarring ALL Lebs with the same brush. I certainly don't. While I was in Sydney some time back I met both kinds. At the swimming pool in Bankstown area, I came across a young lebanese boy who was the epitomy of niceness, chatting with his dad later also, it was clear that they are like you. Well adjusted, friendly and well mannered. No argument there.
Then, when walking around outside, I noticed some of the 'other' kind, the haircuts, the dirty looks at me... its mixed.

If you have integrated, that's wonderful. I'm curious, are you Muslim or Christian background?
It's much easier for a Christian b'ground to assimilate, and harder for a Muslim, but not impossible.

My criteria for acceptance of Muslims is that they support our government and laws. Do not call for Sharia law, or try to marry polygamously on the sly. There are some verses in the Quran which I would prefer them to outright denounce, but for them this might be hard.
Surah 9:30 is one, 23:5-6 is another. 9:30 calls down divine destruction on ME and all like me (Christians) and all Jews, based on our core beliefs. This is a serious issue.

Great comment Boaz_David. I think many have a bad feeling about Islam which is hard for lote of people to articulate. You are hitting the nail on the head when you say that anybody living in Australia must obey Australian Law only. Also there should be an intellectual discourse on Islam without Muslims frothing at the mouth and calling for blood when the prophet is criticised. These reactions across the globe to anyone who questions the prophet cannot deem Islam a peaceful religion. Hirsi Ali who recently visited Australia is a good case point...she needed protection 24/7 for daring to critcise Islam. If it is such a peaceful religion as we are continually told, then let Muslims explain how those passages in the Koran are interpreted which advocate violence and label Christians and Jews as inferior. We need a Government enquiry into Islam. It needs to be explained and analysed and criticised. Muslims it appears have a well developed sense of playing "victims". When are they ever going to grt over the crusades?

To realize just now sinister groups like Hizb Ut Tahrir are, one only needs to look at their constitution.

Aniel, that nail just received another heavy whack from you post :)
well said:

I encourage you to support a growing world wide, and Australian movement, of raising public awareness about the dark side of Islam, and recommend this website as a starting point.

http://www.islammonitor.org

They have Melbourne and Sydney groups, and will participate in public events as mentioned above. We went to the directions hearing for the Catch the Fire case, and received a mention in the Media.
It is single issue.. "awareness about Islam" and supporters include Jews, Atheists and Christians.

http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/constitution.htm

Article 179
Political manoeuvres are necessary in foreign policy, and the effectiveness of these manoeuvres is dependent on concealing (your) aims and disclosing (your) acts.
 
Article 180
Some of the most important political means are disclosing the crimes of other states, demonstrating the danger of erroneous politics, exposing harmful conspiracies and destroying misleading personalities.

Article 7 on Apostasy reads

c. Those who are guilty of apostasy (murtadd) from Islam are to be executed according to the rule of apostasy, provided they have by themselves renounced Islam.

The goal of islammonitor.org is to actually FULFILL the stated goals of Hizb, but reversed. They say you have to be sneaky and expose the deficiencies in outsiders views. Well.. I suggest we be OPEN and quite honest, in doing the same thing about them.

We must be fully aware..that Hizb is a cancer in this country, which if ever successful is hereby advocating EXECUTION of any person who decides by their own free will to depart from Islam for a different (and better) religious choice.

So, Hizb by constitution is in reality advocating violence and murder of Muslims who turn away.

I don't think VRM is afraid.Assumptions are the point of his comment.The origins of the word 'sinister' are of focus here too!
What am I on? The last time I considered this it was two legs and the planet Earth.Mineral,vegetable and finally human!Thats all we are.To judge ones politics is to judge ones common thought.An arrogance we grant ourselves until we are ourselves are judged.Then it is not fair.
What am I on,or VRM for that matter?Question my politics not me,come on then!I too circle the odd mosque but not to challenge,merely admire the architecture and know its origens.