Hysterical nonsense.

Not without precedent. I've heard the example of the Sudetenland raised, where three million ethnic Germans were relocated after the war because of their support of the Nazis. Gaza has failed, so doing the same thing over seems to be the stupid choice.

Fester

The fact that there is historical precedent for ethnic cleansing does not make Trump’s plan any less monstrous.

Why is it that the Trump supporters who urged us before his election to take him seriously but not literally, now insist on taking his most vile and preposterous proposals as genuine and worthy of sober consideration. This plan is about as plausible as his proposed purchase of Greenland; but as Alon Ben-Meir points out, its consequences are far, far, more damaging.

Gazans don’t want to leave Gaza. Egypt, Jordan and Israel’s other neighbours do not want to take them. Perhaps if Trump is serious, he should offer to resettle them in West Virginia, which voted 70% for Trump at the election. Let’s see how that goes down with his MAGA base.

The 'Palestinian' problem has dragged on for 70 years and we are no closer to fixing it today than we were 70 years ago.

The previous 'solutions' have all been utter failures. Half the world chants for a two state solution even though it's no closer to being realised than it was 50 years ago and has been repeated rejected by the Palestinians themselves.

So 70 years of blood-shed. 70 years of failed proposals. And now a new idea and they all chant as one that we must go back to the old failed policies. Why, its almost like they don't want a solution unless it involves the end of Israel.

Forcing Gazans to leave is absolutely wrong, I agree.
But forcing them instead to have their own state and live in it under a beastly regime - is that less evil?

Gazans have suffered way too much and too long:
if anyone truly cares for them, then they should find them new place(s), build it/them, offer them free and respectable transport and send in observers to ensure that no Gazan is coerced into staying there against their will.

Hi Yuyustu

I partly agree. If Gazans wish to leave, and somewhere else is willing to take them, then they should be free to go. But indications are that most don’t want to leave, in which case, they shouldn’t be forced to.

I also agree that they should not be forced to live under a beastly regime. Unfortunately, on the one occasion they were offered the choice, they voted for Hamas. Subsequent surveys have show fairly high levels of support for Hamas among Gazans, though it seems to have fallen in the past 17 months. The only other organisation close to a Palestinian government at present is the Palestinian Authority, which is unpopular, corrupt and incompetent. It has also show understandable reluctance to take on the job of running Gaza after the war.

It may be a forlorn hope, but this is my wish for the outcome of this horrible conflict:

1) Something akin to the Marshall Plan in which the international community commits to rebuilding Gaza. This is not just about property, infrastructure and economic capacity, it’s also about building a sustainable peaceful polity, similar to the “denazification” of Germany after WW2. Hamas has been seriously damaged militarily and organisationally, but if it (or something similar) is not to emerge from the ashes, its ideology must be defeated.

2) Involving the sensible regional players in building a real two-state solution in which both Palestinians and Israelis recognise each other’s right to exist, and agree to co-exist peacefully. This is not the “two state solution” apparently envisaged by our government, in which countries recognise “Palestine” as a “state” (even though it clearly isn’t), and without Israel and Palestine having to recognise each other.

3) As part of the two-state agreement, Israel withdrawing from the West Bank and East Jerusalem and negotiating an agreed outcome for other disputed territories.

4) International commitment to provide whatever economic and military resources are needed to make 1-3 work.

My guess is your response may also be “I partly agree”!

There have been numerous times that these Arab communities have moved
in the last 100 years. Anyway they demand that the Jews pack up & leave.
Read this, I certainly was not aware of all these changes;
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/21388/resettling-gaza

Seems that Trump-hatred destroys critical thinking. There's a long history of evacuating damaged cities to make way for reconstruction, from earthquake-devastated Lisbon in 1755 to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina in recent times.

Dear Rhian,

I fully agree.

This is a dream, and may it come true.

Physical rebuilding is relatively the easier task,
the harder part is that both sides badly need “denazification”.
Now who in the world is both strong enough and mature enough to evenly undertake what it takes?

Obvioudly, they cannot live next door to each other.
Living amoungst the rubble without any normal infrastructure services
is also impossible. To move into new townships in Jordan is the
obvious solution.
They could be employed to build those townships.
Some would have to stay in Gaza and be employed in the cleanup and
that would be a long job anyway. By the time they were offered a new
house in the new township they would be pleased to go.

Hi Rhian,

"The fact that there is historical precedent for ethnic cleansing does not make Trump’s plan any less monstrous."

Was Kuwait's expulsion of Palestinians for their support of the Iraqi invasion monstrous?

I'm more concerned with the outcome it delivers for the Gazans. Doing the same thing would seem to condemn the Gazans as well as the Israelis to the same miserable and violent outcome. That isn't good. BTW, relocating the Gazans is does not satisfy the definition of ethnic cleansing as ethnic cleansing involves relocating (they would not be murdered, as is a common usage of the word) an ethnic group from a population. How would that apply to a population that has routinely practiced ethnic cleansing (in the murderous sense of the term) to the extent of becoming a monoculture?

Not going to happen.

Trumps a businessman, a dealmaker, and he does things his own way.
He says crazy things to force the other parties to run around screaming and present him with a counter proposal.

Hi AC,

Trump may be able to sell the idea if he can make it economically enticing for the surrounding nations. It is a beautiful part of the world, so transforming it from a headache and hell hole to expensive real estate attracting the tourist dollar for its owners might sway some opinions. Look what Lebanon used to be.

Hi Fester
I don’t think the Kuwaiti expulsions are a good comparison. The Palestinians had a long history in Kuwait, but they were not Kuwaiti citizens (most had Jordanian passports) and mostly supported the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

Given the extent of destruction in Gaza, and the money and time it will take to rebuild, it is conceivable that the best outcome for Gazans would be to settle elsewhere. But that ignores the implausibility of it actually happening, for many reasons.

First, if the USA forces Gazans to leave Gaza it will be “ethnic cleansing”, which is a serious war crime. “Ethnic cleansing” can entail murder, but more often it is forcibly removing a population from their homes because of their race. The expulsion of Greeks from Turkey, and Croats from Serbia are examples.

Second, many Palestinians consider themselves refugees who were forcibly expelled from their homeland and illegally prevented from returning. The historical and legal veracity of this account is fiercely debated, but it has led to a deep attachment to the land and intense focus on the injustice of forced resettlement. They will not want to go, and will probably resist violently.

Third, no-one will want them. Israel’s neighbours – Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria – all have serious economic and, in two cases, political and security problems. Lebanon and Syrian already have large populations of Palestinian “refugees” who are mostly the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of people who actually left Palestine. If these countries refuse to allow these populations to assimilate as full citizens, why on earth think they’ll do it for Gazans? And the Gazans are desperate, impoverished and mostly unskilled, and many are indoctrinated with a murderous Islamofascist ideology that endorses violent overthrow of the governments of their proposed host countries. Not exactly ideal migrants.

Hi Rhian,

"I don’t think the Kuwaiti expulsions are a good comparison. The Palestinians had a long history in Kuwait, but they were not Kuwaiti citizens (most had Jordanian passports) and mostly supported the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait."

Do you know why they welcomed Saddam? Maybe, like Saudi Arabia and Qatar they were second class labourers similar to those under apartheid, and Saddam brought them the promise of equal citizenship?

As for for Greece, I have a work colleague whose great grandfather was murdered by the Turks, but that was a different age. For the Palestinians the hatred never dies, their society dedicated to the genocide of Israel, as this Palestinian explains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR_W7W1E6Lc

While the hatred burns I cannot see a two state solution ever succeeding, but relocating the population might in time extinguish the hatred. The dysphemism of relocation as the war crime of ethnic cleansing will only serve to keep the Palestinians in their hateful mindset.

It is their land that is being stolen. That is why all the hatred.
Now the orange fool wants to steal their land.
If everyone stops stealing the palestinians land maybe they would stop resisting.

Hi Mik,

"It is their land that is being stolen. That is why all the hatred."

What land was stolen? Who stole it? Is a genocidal hatred of a people and their descendants not your own choice? Do Australians have a duty to murder German and Japanese people in perpetuity because we were once at war with them, or do we move on?

The plight of Palestinians is a monster made of their own hatred.

Hi Fester,
"Trump may be able to sell the idea if he can make it economically enticing for the surrounding nations."

Saudi Arabia have stated there will be no normalisation of ties with Israel without a Palestinian State, I'm sure Trump will try to restart his Abraham Accords, not sure how successful he would be.

King Abdullah (Jordan) and El Sisi (Egypt) have both stated they will not house Palestinians removed forcibly from Gaza, and then you have the Palestinians themselves, who probably won't leave even if forced to go anyway.

Finally, I'm not sure Gaza, a place where all these women and kids have been slaughtered, is any place for a tourism destination, despite the good location.

The idea of Trump doing real estate speculation is not in good taste, but I think he's trying to think outside the box, not sure it's a realistic plan with a workable positive outcome though.

"The plight of Palestinians is a monster made of their own hatred."
- I would not agree with that, it's victim blaming.

The plight of the Palestinians is a monster made of Israel failure to enter into fair and peaceful negotiations as well as a failure to state it's own borders, because they want the land Palestinians are on, and they seek it by hook or by crook.

How long ago was it that we saw those long lines of Gazans walking
back to Nth Gaza ?
They have now been sitting in the rubble under canvas for a couple
of weeks by now.
How do you think they will feel when it has been a couple of months ?
And no sign of anything been done to clean up and make safe ?
Hamas still opposing Trumps plan, and the months turning into a year.
Still no change, still under canvas and no sign of any change.

Talk of two states is stupid. It would require the Gazans to
surrender land that they claim as theirs to Jews.
It is forbidden.
Ever wonder why suburbs such as Lakemba become 100% moslem ?
They can only sell land to Moslems.

I would not agree with that, it's victim blaming.
Armchair Critic,
You literally sound like a guilty victim ! Fester is right, you are wrong by not doing what many have done over millennia. Accept defeat ! Unless you prefer perpetual war & for what exactly ?
The Palestinians who live in Israel don't share your views from what I see on many videos. Unlike you they know that peace comes through peace not perpetual war.
Time to call it a day !

Dear Critic,

«The plight of the Palestinians is a monster made of Israel failure to enter into fair and peaceful negotiations as well as a failure to state it's own borders,»

But Israel did just that - it entered into fair and peaceful negotiations where it stated its desired borders and allowing for further compromise.

When the so-called "Palestinians" saw that the Israelis were serious, they jumped into their cars and escaped in a convoy without notice.

It is the so-called "Palestinians" who do not want a state of their own. They won't take it even if you pay them!

«because they want the land Palestinians are on, and they seek it by hook or by crook.»

Today, sadly yes, Israel's present warmongering government does, but for several decades that was not the case.

Hi Fester
I think the reasons Kuwait’s Palestinians welcomed Iraq’s invasion are complicated. The PLO was favourably disposed to Iraq because it was one of the countries that invaded Israel and tried to destroy it in 1948. Saddam provided them with money and weapons (including a $25,000 bounty for suicide bombers), and they shared a Pan-Arabist ideology. The PLO supported Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait in 1990, as it had the Invasion of Iran in 1980. Many Kuwaiti Palestinians (not all) took their cue from the PLO.

As I understand it, they were – unusually for migrant groups – not particularly poor or exploited. This (very pro-Palestinian, but quite informative) website suggests that the Kuwait’s Palestinians included a disproportionate number of educated and professional people, and in the 1960s and 1970s they were becoming “… increasingly prosperous and influential both in the state itself, as well as beyond it”, but that tensions were emerging even before 1990.
http://badil.org/publications/al-majdal/issues/items/1355.html

I think another forcible relocation, as well as being probably illegal and certainly immoral, would only reinforce the hatred and sense of grievance of the Palestinians.

Hi Rhian,

Maybe not so complicated, but thank you for the link. Did you know that there were wealthy and educated South Africans of African and Asian heritage under apartheid? The problem wasn't so much about wealth as it was about empowerment. With the education comes an understanding of concepts like democracy and equality: Maybe that played a role or maybe it was the normal machinations of tribalism in the region. Palestinians in Australia supported the voice, so perhaps some prefer heritage based apartheid over the equality of a democracy. Palestinians have certainly demonstrated the preference with their long standing desire to wipe Israel from the map.

Hi AC,

I asked Foxy what military objective all the wars waged against Israel had in common. She said that they were waged in response to human rights abuses being committed by Israel, whereas I take the more conservative view that they were waged in accordance with President Nasser's words:

"The battle will be a general one and our basic objective will be to destroy Israel."

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/statement-by-president-nasser-to-arab-trade-unionists-may-1967

What is your take on the question?

The source of the Middle East problems is the Koran.
The hatred in it is taught from cradle to grave.
It is a political ideology that states it is at war with all those
that reject Allah.
Its purpose to enforce Islam on all the world, and they have done
it well over the last 1400 years.
Give them another 1000 years and all Europe will be Islamic and
probably most of Africa certainly a lot of Sth America and
perhaps a majority of US states.The only thing that will stop them
will be a very big war, while only Pakistan has nuclear weapons.
Do you think they are lying about the intention of the ideology ?
Think this is nonsense ? Well you just joined all those Mesopotamians,
Indians North Africans, Persians etc etc with the same thoughts as you.

.

What is your take on the question?
Fester,
You'll never get any sense out of Foxy let alone into her !

Hi Indy,

I'm ever the optimist.