The people who use it should pay; and mothers should get back to raising their own children until school age. Professional child care is just Soviet-style brainwashing of innocents.

“Society obviously values children…”? It's not obvious. Our ‘society’ allowed 100,000 of them to be murdered in the womb last year by abortionists and their mothers. Some of these babies took 5 hours to die in a tray after they were aborted.

Don't give me bullsh.t about children being valued.

If they were really valued, by their parents at least, they would not be handed over to strangers when they need their mothers until at least 5 years of age. The strangers these days are political activists and the most dangerous people to be dealing with vulnerable, impressionable kids, with no defence against the same sort of activists when they get to ‘big school’.

Child care epitomises the socialist Total State: relieve the masses of the family responsibilities ((the family is the the main threat to the Total State) with tax money, and the fools jump at the opportunity to be ‘helped’ by Big Brother. Actually, it's more Big Sister these days, with more and more women, having no kids or getting rid of them, popping up as ‘CEOS’ of just about everything. All they need is the right ideology.

Having children is the ultimate form of selfishness.
It is very much a personal lifestyle choice and, like all such lifestyle choices, costs should be borne by those indulging in it.

Having children is the ultimate form of selfishness.
ateday,
That's a rather perplexing view when it is the only way Nature has offered for any life, not just humans to exist.
Not having children is the ultimate form selfishness ! However, for humans such as the Woke it would be the most selfless gesture for the rest of us not to have children !

I used to have similar views to Leyonhjelm, but my position has shifted somewhat given the evidence of the benefits of high-quality early childhood education.

Leyonhjelm says the Productivity Commission found that “the only children who benefit from ECEC are from dysfunctional households, such as those where substance abuse is an issue.” This is incorrect. The PC did indeed find that, for very young children (up to 2 or 3 years old), there is mixed evidence of the benefit s of ECEC except for children “where the home environment offers very poor development opportunities or places the child at risk”. But for slightly older children, especially in the year before starting school, the benefits are unequivocal and apply across the board - “the benefits of quality early learning for children in the year prior to starting school are largely undisputed, with evidence of immediate socialisation benefits for children, increased likelihood of a successful transition into formal schooling and improved performance in standardised test results in the early years of primary school as a result of participation in preschool programs.”

The PC also highlighted the importance of the quality of ECEC services. While the credentialism condemned by Leyonhjelm may not in fact produce high-quality services, the benefits of high-quality services are clear. ECEC is not simply about paid babysitters keeping children “safe, happy and entertained”.

http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/childcare/report/childcare-overview.pdf

Having children is a choice, and I agree that parents should take prime responsibility for giving their progeny the best options in life. But children are also people in their own right, who deserve a reasonable start in life even if their parents are stupid, dysfunctional or poor. And it is in the interests of today’s taxpayers that tomorrow’s taxpayers are productive, educated and socially well-adjusted. If we support their childcare now, hopefully they’ll support our aged care in future.

So by all means encourage parents to take responsibility for their offspring. But there is a strong case for social support for ECEC, especially if we target subsidies at the kids who will benefit from it most and the services that deliver the best outcomes.

Yea, pay to institutionalise children and make them used to incarceration from an earlier age, this way it will also be easier to conscript them when they turn 18, then later also make them more subservient and productive soldiers of the tax-paying work-force. Yes, toughen them up by having them bullied earlier in life, expose them to life's true and cruel social realities, do teach them them that crying won't help because Mommy and Daddy are not there to save them, that instead they better pray to Big Brother.

I ask, why is the taxpayer subsidising people in old age with pensions, health care, aged care, etc costing taxpayers billions, when there is no prospect of these old folks ever becoming productive members of society. People 20 years or more receiving Aged Welfare, many the result of a wasteful or non productive "working life", where they gambled and drank, wasted the money they may have earned! On the other hand CHILDREN and the investment by the taxpayer in their care will reap future billions for the economy!

What is better, plant the seed and water it, watch it grow into a healthy tree, then enjoy the fruits, or waste water on a shrivelled up old dead stump?

Dear Paul,

«What is better, plant the seed and water it, watch it grow into a healthy tree»

A baobab tree!

"Now there were some terrible seeds on the planet that was the home of the little prince; and these were the seeds of the baobab. The soil of that planet was infested with them. A baobab is something you will never, never be able to get rid of if you attend to it too late. It spreads over the entire planet. It bores clear through it with its roots. And if the planet is too small, and the baobabs are too many, they split it in pieces . . . "

http://www.angelfire.com/hi/littleprince/framechapter5.html

Hi Yuyutsu,

Don't take me serious about old folk, there is a certain (older) element on this forum who are anti young people. I defend the young, as I find them not the bad, miserable, ignorant, unintelligent lot these old wowsers make them out to be. I have confidence in tomorrows generation.

Dear Paul,

It is the responsibility of young and old the like, to stop this uncontrolled infestation of humans on this planet, which inevitably thwarts both the environment, including the other species, and the freedom of humans themselves.

While the young should refrain from procreation, the old should stop expecting and pressuring them to give them grandchildren and grand-grandchildren. One thing for sure, nobody should receive prizes and financial incentives for their irresponsibility.

If any of them, parents, grandparents, uncles, whatever, are found to encourage having children, overtly or covertly, then they should foot the bills for their health and education to the last cent they've got.

I think one of the very very tactics left to us is to educate the Left to the point where they can see their own stupidity & fake righteousness.
To achieve that we need to rid our education system of the Leftist hierarchy & put people with some of the little common sense still found on the Right in those positions.
Youth crime is directly attributable to Leftist ideology which is heavily represented in the Justice system yet no attention is ever drawn to that.
I'm aware that stupidity is not indictable but rewarding it is simply going way too far ! Corporal punishment should be applied if compensation isn't offered to victims.
Do-gooders keep saying that jail isn't the answer. Show me one jail in Australia that has conditions below those experienced by many old age pensioners ? Jails have gyms, computers, kitchen, good food et etc. All the things that people who have worked all their lives can't afford.
Childcare should be in the home & family assistance rather than working mothers is the answer !

"I think one of the very very tactics left to us is to educate the Left to the point where they can see their own stupidity & fake righteousness." Stalin gulags.

"To achieve that we need to rid our education system of the Leftist hierarchy & put people with some of the little common sense still found on the Right in those positions." Pol Pot re-education.

"I'm aware that stupidity is not indictable but rewarding it is simply going way too far ! Corporal punishment should be applied if compensation isn't offered to victims." Benito Mussolini black shirts

"Do-gooders keep saying that jail isn't the answer. Show me one jail in Australia that has conditions below those experienced by many old age pensioners ? Jails have gyms, computers, kitchen, good food et etc. All the things that people who have worked all their lives can't afford." Adolf Hitler Displaying Auschwitz to neutral observers.

SEE, Indy someone else has thought of these things before you.

Paul1405,
You're going to upset your Public Service Union by so freely displaying to us how they shaped your & other members mentality ! Brainwashing does work with minds like that !

Yuyu,
words of wisdom yet again.
Homo Sapiens is a parasite on this planet. We take all and give nothing to it.

Hi Yuyutsu,

I do recall you wanting 97% of humans exterminated, I found that rather disturbing at the time, you never actually said how. World population control is usually called for by the privileged mass consumers of the developed world, something to be inflicted on the third world mass, not on them. I assume this is all in aid of "sharing the pie", if that be the case then as Americans on average consume the pie (world resources) at a rate seven times greater than the average African, that's where we should start, in America....then Europe, then Australia. Agree? Voluntary of course.

Dear Paul,

«I do recall you wanting 97% of humans exterminated»

Your recollection is inaccurate: I was speaking of natural attrition.

Reduction of human population to a healthy level of 100-200 millions should be carried out by attempting to cease human reproduction all over this planet.

Hi Yuyutsu,

I stand corrected as to the method you wish to apply to reduce world population. BUT, I see a few problems with that;

1. How do you get women/men (or one or the other) to take part in mass sterilisation? Is there a choice, is it voluntary. Civil disobedience!

2. Where do you begin, is there a "target" population? example Africa first. More civil disobedience!

3. If you simply concentrate on breeding, then you end up with 100-200 million old people, non productive, unable to reproduce, therefore eventually zero population. Extinction is achieved.

4. In fact if you were doing it "right" in true Orwellian style, with selective breeding programs, and at the same time "removing" non-productive's, the old, disabled, unskilled, etc etc, when you achieved your goal of 100-200 million people, their living standard with actually be less than the average of today. people would lack innovative skills, put simply there would not be enough "skilled providers", available for such a small population. more civil disobedience. Bloody hell, you'll need a big police force!

is there a "target" population?
Paul1405,
Good question ! The Woke, the superstition zealots & other parasitic present themselves as a viable option ! Many of them come across as mindless enough to offer their services.

The sad ultimate fact of life is that to achieve a reasonable, sustainable population of Homo Sapiens, in the absence of a huge natural disaster, would require much time, which we probably do not have and also the agreement of the planet`s 8 billion people. We probably won`t/can`t achieve that either so the obvious conclusion is that in the, probably not all that far off, future the remaining non human animal inhabitants will all very happy and can continue their sustainable existence.
To indyvidual re your reply to my initial comment, Animals do indeed breed but in a sustainable manner within the limits of their environment. Something Homo Sapiens do not do. There can be no greater act of selflessness than deciding to forgo having children.

There can be no greater act of selflessness than deciding to forgo having children.
ateday,
Yes, no argument from me about people with that degree of integrity. However, most people I know who chose/choose not to have children are purely for utterly selfish reasons.
There is no greater human & animal love than the one for your children. The people, or rather humanoids who choose against the responsibility, care & pleasure of children are the ones who pollute the Planet with saturation travel & generally polluting activities or as in some groups kill other peoples' children by cowardly using them as shields. Then there are those who seek pleasure in molestation of other peoples' children, exploit other peoples' children for financial gain etc etc. These humanoids aren't "foregoing" having children, they're too selfish to miss out out on selfish activities that can't be engaged in when children require their presence !
I agree with you that there are many selfless people but they're not the ones deliberately not to have children !

Indyvidual,
I choose to not add to the planet`s population when I was about 25 or 30, some 50 or so years ago. I realised then that the Earth had enough people. I was not wrong.
I have no regrets.

As an aside I have no problem with those who choose to have replacement number of naturally conceived children. Those whom I consider very selfish and irresponsible are those with large families who consider themselves as doing a wonderful job by so doing. Religions must share much of the blame for this.

ateday,
What's you opinion on the genocide against the West by out-breeding it ?

ateday,
what's your opinion on those who support the out-breeding of their own ? Leftists who don't want to curb the willy nilly influx of those whose agenda is to annihilate the ones who let them in ?

Dear Paul,

Your 4 question have more than one set of answers:
I can assure you that these practical issues can be solved, but the exact solution would depend on the implementers' overall values.

I could tell you what I would personally do.

I could tell you for example that as I value non-violence, I would not sterilise anyone by force, but use education and financial incentives instead - but someone else could carry forced sterilisations, historically some already did.

I could tell you that I will begin everywhere simultaneously, that I would not make exception of any country or continent - but someone else could.

I could tell you that while concentrating on breeding alone, I would gently loosen the pressure when population comes down to around 400 million, so from then on the curve would gradually smoothen - but someone else could in parallel or instead also take action against older people.

I could tell you that along with the reduction in population I would also allow the level of material technology to be reduced and replaced with quality spiritual satisfaction that does not require such specialised skills - but someone else might insist on maintaining the same level of hi-tech and the skills it requires, thus as you suggest they might need a big police force.

The more & more & more mentality bandwagon needs a brake overhaul asap !

Childcare is no different to schools. Indoctrination happens in both however, it is more damaging when toddlers are exposed to it. The evidence is screaming at us from all sides.
Childcare is best avoided but until we have a Govt that puts family above tax Dollars to support the non-contributors it's all in vain.
The Baby boomers are an example of mums raising the kids !