Not dissimilar here, with the "liberal" press working overtime to smear Dutton and (perhaps) make him unelectable.

The reality is that Albanese has broken Rudd's unreachable immigration marks by 60%, and signed radical migration agreements with the ultra-nationalist Modi. The successfully-embedded fake narrative is that Albanese and O'Neil are "fixing" dangerous Dutton's "broken" system.

Google "Murphy + Dutton", and see why this hyperventilating Guardian hack has just been rewarded with a plush sinecure in the PM's Office.

I hope Donald Trump regains the Presidency. If he does, the Albanese government is going to have to smarten up. Mr Trump doesn't like supposed allies bludging off America. I would like to see someone like him leading Australia.

Given Communist China and the other bad actors getting more aggressive, the free world NEEDS Donald Trump. Petty dislikes and judgements must be put aside if Americans and the rest of us in the West are to be safe again.

Trump's competence as a manager is what stirs the jealousy of the incompetent Left ! Same here with Dutton.

"The West is in danger, but it is divided;  it has degraded itself with an unhinged reaction to Covid, followed by economy-wrecking climate hysteria; it has also lost its power of deterrence, and is as strategically weak as it was prior to WW2. Internal dissension and self-sabotage lays the West open to surprise attacks."

Only Donald Trump is willing and able to do anything about the dangerous situation. There might be "nicer" people, but they haven't shown themselves.

Yes Graham, he was elected to office on the promise to destroy elitism. Yes, he lowered taxes and also grew the national debt massively.

He is in my opinion, a compulsive liar, a tax cheat, a womanising misogynist and a climate change denialist.

He collects money from his shrinking support base, allegedly, for this or that political campaign, millions which seem to be rerouted into his private bank accounts as grift.

His run for the Presidency seems to be for the immunity of office.

Hunter Biden may be guilty as charged? But as I understand it, he is getting no assistance from his Father and will have his day in court. Until then he is presumed innocent.

From mine, and listening to the rambling that has become Donald Trump, I believe he is not a well man and on health grounds alone, not fit for office.

I believed him when he first ran for office and was pleased that he won. I believe Joe Biden beat him last time only because he wasn't Trump and part of the elites than run things on capitol hill.

At the end of the day when all the facts are on the table and proven beyond a reasonable doubt, Mr Trump may well do time for tax fraud.

Until then, I'll keep an open mind and not rush to a final judgement.

That said, I believe this is a problem that the (hugely divided) American voters must decide. I hope they will do so with open minds and opened eyes, and open ears, then let the proven facts prevail.

Sadly, Graham, one can fool some of the (very low IQ) people all of the time. No personal offence intended.
Alan B.

I don't see Dutton as unelectable and not even on the same planet as Mr Trump. His promise to look at/embrace nuclear makes him my choice at the next election that counts.

How do you know when a politician is lying? His/her lips move.
Alan B.

Thanks GY . Kudos.

It's notable that Alan B seems to have Rino type political positions but supports nuclear energy.

We worked and lived in the US for close to ten years.
Our children were born in the US. We witnessed a few
presidential campaigns and became familiar with American
politics. We saw and experienced many things first-hand.
Hence our decision to return home to Australia, We did not
like the direction America was headed.

Donald Trump's first tenure in the White House revealed
extraordinary cracks and tears in the lining of American
society and left for most of us little doubt that he was
a figure unlike any other in the nation's history.

His approach to governing was really unconventional to say
the least. Other president's tried to unite the nation.
Trump, from the very first day seemed to revel in a political
fight. He used his presidential position to criticize a
long list of people he saw as enemies.

From the news media to members of his own administration, to
elected officials in both parties and even foreign heads of
state. With more than 26,000 Tweets he showed his thinking on
a range of issues with Twitter finally banning him from their
platform. He was impeached twice. And he was the first
chief executive officer in more than 150 years to refuse to
attend his successor's inauguration.

No class. A spoilt self-centred brat!

It scares the heck out of me if this unstable creature gets
elected.

His protectionist policies may have a big effect on Australian
governments. Trump is likely to drive a harder bargain on
AUKUS and US policies in the Asia-Pacific in relation to China.
Us support for Ukraine could be problematic.

How closely would Australia want to work with the US under
this unstable man? I suspect we shall be taking different paths
especially if led by Peter Dutton who would be more
independent in our foreign policy, security, our political
culture, our democracy.

Trump has certain long-term
views. He's allergic to alliances. He's sympathetic to strong
men like Putin and his views echo isolationism.

Canem Malum, anyone with half a brain would support nuclear energy, particularly if it involves molten Thorium reactors.
David

Robert Reich writes:

"One word can sum up a Trump second-term:
VENGEANCE."

" He'd weaponize the Department of Justice to
victimize his enemies."

"He's vowed to investigate the media for "treason."

"He wants to "root out" leftists from our country
calling them "vermin."

And Reich states - "If you're not horrified, then
you're not paying attention."

"Even if President Trump doesn't win the next presidential election, the stresses that have shaped his rise to power will not disappear".... from the article.

I've said it before...Trump isn't the cause of the 'deplorable' uprising, he's the symptom. Trump in 2015, merely identified the vast swath of Americans who'd been pushed aside by the coastal elites and forgotten. These people had been led to believe that they could achieve some degree of salvation from the Tea-Party movement. But both the coastal elites using the apparatus of the state against the Tea-Party plus betrayal by their own leadership left the 'deplorables' unrepresented. Trump represents them and he didn't abandon them in his first term, which is why he's so loved by them.

Graham is very right that the coverage of US politics here in Australia is outrageously bad, particularly (but not limited to) the ABC. This is partly due to the wall-to-wall usage of highly biased US media.

Graham quotes from Selina Zito ( "The press treats him literally, but not seriously, his supporters take him seriously, but not literally")
and Australians would do well to better understand Trump if they did nothing other than read the semi-regular output from Zito and Bari Weiss to get a view that they'd never see from Australian corporate media. There are many others but those two would serve as an appropriate antidote what most Australian get through their media.

We see enormous numbers of people who have a negative opinion of Trump. But ask them which of his policies they detest and they'll look askant. Most Australians wouldn't have the faintest idea what Trump's policies are and why they are supposed to hate them.

I think the deep state will get their man. But as has been said before, if Trump goes down fighting, the deplorables won't stop looking for the next Trump and that next one will make Trump look like a pussy-cat.

In a previous thread, I compared Trump to Tiberius Gracchus. After Tiberius was destroyed, those who followed him learnt how to combat the state. Ultimately Roman democracy was eliminated

Strewth, where to start?

Not quite a love letter to Trump but certainly and apologist for him.

I can understand the frustration of a fixation on Trump. I have it too. He is not the main problem, instead his popularity needs to be a acknowledged as a symptom of a wider malaise within American politics. As Michael Moore said 6 months before he was elected people are looking to throw a hand-grenade at the system and could well have supported Bernie Saunders if he had got the nod.

But to be claiming Trump's policies (most of which were funded by a severe rise in the deficit) as successful, is just a fanciful meme continuously unquestioned by his sycophants such as this author.

Sure there can be a distinction between Trump's presidency before Covid and after. But there are some really stark figures that should disavow any notion his policies did the US much good at all.

The federal debt went up, from $14.4 trillion to $21.6 trillion.

Illegal immigration increased dramatically.

The international trade deficit Trump promised to reduce instead ballooned, increasing 40.5% from 2016.

The record eight years and four months of monthly job gains from October 2010 ended in February 2019 when 50,000 jobs were lost that month.

He was not a good leader, nor a good president, because he had neither the skills nor the intellect to do the job.

But the problems which blight America still exist in plain sight. if they are not going to be addressed then Trump will again be a contender.

Hear, hear and well said, Foxy.

Trump was a disaster. What he wants now is to make Trump, alias America, great again.

Moreover he wants to win the next election for the immunity of office, and if he does, he will if he can have the constitution amended, so he like his good mate Putin, stay in office indefinitely. That's the plan, mark my words.

But do not worry he will not win, may not even win party preselection nor the primaries.

Against all odds, should he win, anyone who stands or stood in the way, eliminated. Those that support him the greatest losers, as trump will do what always use the easiest manipulated (white redneck morons) and then move on giving them SFA for their loyal support or millions in financial donations.

He will get any who stood in his way. His "mind" is focused on revenge.

His policies, if one can call them that, would destroy American economy as the debt ceiling pulls the economy into the financial cellar.

Debt funded growth can work, but only if the investments earn a quid or two, enough to service the debt and then still produce a profit above operating costs. Pipelines, toll roads, tunnels, bridges low-cost rental homes/apartments, etc.

One cannot borrow to fund current operational expenditure. That needs to come out of capital earnings.

Little wonder this financial " Genius" went bankrupt six or seven times.

Look what happened last time a madman won power! And, I believe, the "man" is madder than a cut snake.

The lessons of history are never learned, until they are, they must be endlessly repeated! Ah, sigh, bugger.
Alan B.

Here in Australia, anyone who goes bankrupt can never stand for public office. And with good reason.

Who would want a financial incompetent in charge of millions, or in the case of the US of A, trillions.

Only in America.

Thank heavens our residential white redneck morons are a tiny if vocal minority. For them anyone not of the extreme far right, is a mongrel lefty.

Thank heavens they operate in an echo chamber and the moderate middle just look with disbelief at their preferred dehumanising policies!

Germany has stepped up to the political plate, with never again, activism against a small, extreme far right political movement.

Here in Australia, they have infiltrated the coalition and have changed it from the once great party it was and in effect, forced the TEALS (more moderate of the right, fiscally conservate and socially progressive) into existence.

This result, all but pulled the teeth of the coalition.
Alan B.

As usual, unable to understand, let lone argue the big picture, SR decides to pick out a few details and pretend they are in fact the big picture.

And then gets those details hopelessly wrong.

eg "The federal debt went up, from $14.4 trillion to $21.6 trillion." says innumerate SR.

When Trump office in 2017 the Federal debt was c.$20 trillion. It had been c.$14 trillion back in 2011 but in the land of TDs inhabited by SR that was probably retrospectively caused by Trump.

What is it with SR and numbers?

BTW SR's other figures used in his post are just as wrong and/or dubious as his debt figures but who can be bothered picking each apart when its likely he just made them up in the first place.

Trump has been nominated for a Nobel for his Abraham Accords which were close to achieving a lasting peace in the Levant before Biden managed to screw it up. Putin was in his place. Xi also. NK was cowered. All without starting any new wars.

It was a presidency of consequence that only small minds failed to understand.

.

In my opinion, the D.J. (Donald John Trump) is like sand in an oyster: a little produces a pearl, and too much kills the animal.

He has already woken us all up from a deep slumber in the Western world – because, with a single grain of sand, he produced a truly amazing pearl. But, heaven forbid, if ever he offloads more sand, we’ll all be done. Not a single survivor !

We can’t just let one man, no matter who he is, annihilate us all. That wouldn’t be democratic !

But the Sandman’s back and he’s carrying a huge sack of sand with him. He’s headed for that big juicy oyster again. But can he make it? He’s not so young anymore, and he looks tired. The sack is heavy and gets heavier every day. He still has a long way to go and there’s a pack of wolves out to get him.

He runs from courthouse to courthouse, from primary to primary but they keep catching up with him and he keeps fighting them off. He swears to get even with them and bury them all in sand, every single one of them …

That’s the end of this first episode, folks. Next episode next time.

In the next episode, we’ll see if the Sandman succeeds in eliminating his only remaining pearl-producing competitor, Nikki Haley. Nikki is a newcomer to the profession and travels light. She keeps a single grain of sand in one of her shoes and never has to stop off at the courthouses on the way to satisfy a pressing obligation.

The D.J. calls her ‘Nimrada’ (her Indian maiden name is Nimarata Nikki Randhawa) and he says she “doesn’t have what it takes” – presumably, a big bag of sand. He probably doesn't know she has a single grain of sand hidden in one of her shoes.

So, folks, tune in to the next episode next time to follow this fascinating … flop(!)

.

Dearie me post-truth mhaze, you really should know the format by now. If you post some initial figures people can either take them as given or dispute them. However if you are disputing the figures used by someone else you really should provide a source.

http://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/trumps-final-numbers/ was where I got my figures from. If you have something more robust then happy to look at it, but just pulling them out of your backside doesn't cut it.

" you really should know the format by now."

Screw-up and then write new rules about how it works? An admission of error might have been easier. So anyone can make up any old malarkey and its up to others to provide proof they're wrong? Struth what a dill. BTW the 3rd moon of the 4th planet of the Alpha Centauri AB system is made of strawberry yoghurt. Now it up to you to provide links to disprove that.

If I want to find out the type of things SR wrote about I wouldn't go to PleaseTellMeWhatIWantToHear.com or in this case FactCheck.org. I'd go to the horse's mouth, which is what I did. (BTW, the numbers you quoted aren't federal debt numbers, they are so-called Debt to the Penny figures which isn't even close to what you claimed were "federal debt" - stand by for linguistic gymnastics!).

http://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/historical-debt-outstanding/historical-debt-outstanding

BTW, I couldn't help but notice that the site you relied on also listed a bunch of stats very favourable to Trump. I wonder why you didn't mention those?

Any chance that you'll address the main issue here or are you determined to remain mired in inconsequential minutiae,

Donald Trump introduced a new 12 inch doll of himself
that speaks 17 different phrases, which is amazing,
as that's 5 more than the real Donald Trump.

He's a self-made man who worships his creator.

I think that Foxy is fixated on Trump. What do you like most about him?

.

Here is an interesting clip of what the DJ had to say about some of his closest assistants and advisors when he was president.

I guess this is the sort of thing that goes straight to the heart of many Americans and makes him so popular :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSyXYAgihsw&t=235s

.

Canem Malum,

You ask what do I like about Trump?

His fairy floss hair.

His only flair is in his nostrils.

But lets face it - He's racist, he's homophobic,
he's xenophobic, and he's sexist.

He's the perfect Republican candidate.

Most Australian's see US politics as a mirror of Australian politics. So Democrats = ALP and Republicans = Liberals. While that was sorta, kinda true a decade or three ago, things are very different these days.

Still, we find ALP adherents instinctively supporting the Democrats and Liberal adherents gravitating to the Republicans.

These days the MAGA Republicans represent the working class - the people Hilary and most of the Democrats think of as deplorables or what Obama called the clingers. In 2016 it was primarily the white working class that signed up to MAGA, but these days we see both Hispanic and Black working class votes moving increasingly toward Trump and his MAGA Republicans

The Democrat propaganda continues to claim that they are the part of the workers, but in reality the are the party of the middle and upper-middle class urban elites. Additionally they get the majority of support from the ultra-rich Americans and, of course, Wall Street is pretty much completely in the Democrat camp. Hilary's 'deplorable' comments were made to a meeting of Wall St brokers who she thought, correctly, would share her sentiments.

Since the end of the Cold War, the globalised US economy has worked for the benefit of the middle class urban elites and to the severe detriment of the fly-over workers from farmers to coal miners to oil pipeline workers to small towns and mom-and-pop businesses. The Trump revolution is seeking to redress the policies that so favoured the middle class and disfavoured the working class.

So its passing strange and not a little funny that those who think of themselves as favouring the workers via their support for ALP automatically disfavour MAGA and Trump when these are in fact the leaders of the working class. It again comes back to a lack of understanding of what the MAGA movement really is and what its aims are.

And I don't see that changing.

.

The problem is that what used to be called the Republican Party, the GOP (Grand Old Party) continues to exist in name only. It no longer functions as a democratic political party. It has dissolved into a political organisation dedicated exclusively to the promotion of the personal interests of Donald Trump.

The party leaders and committee members no longer fix the political agenda or make policy decisions without referring to their master.

The GOP is now under autocratic rule.

And, more than likely, the same schema would apply if, by misfortune, Donald Trump were to be elected President of the United States in November.

Naturally, we should be prepared for that. But I have great difficulty imagining that that is what a majority of Americans want. I doubt that they truly want to live in a regime similar to that of Putin’s Russia, Xi’s China or Kim’s North Korea.

Hopefully, many of the “grassroots” Republican voters will have enough common sense to realise that the MAGA (Make American Great Again) triumphant cry of the Trump fans will only lead to a catastrophic BAG (Break America Again) result for the United States with negative repercussions throughout the free world.

.

Having lived and worked in the US for close to ten years
and having seen and experienced things on the ground first
hand - I totally agree with Banjo's summation. The
Republican Party is not what it used to be. I've been
accused of being "fixated" with Trump.

No, I'm not fixated. I'm very concerned. Having spent close
to a decade in a place of course you're going to be interested
in what goes on there - especially when you see the detriment
happening.

I watched the House of Windsor series last night and I must
confess - Trump is a good reason for us to choose to remain
attached to a monarchy. Imagine having someone of his
calibre ruling our country.

"The Republican Party is not what it used to be.... I'm very concerned."

Yes Foxy, we know you've long ago abandoned the working class in favour of the urban elites you met in LA.

I lived and worked in Seattle. Doing so did give me an insight into the thinking of that portion of the US homeland. But only that portion. But it no more gave me an insight into the thinking and plight of, say, Appalachian miners as working in Johannesburg would give an insight in the thinking of west Congolese.

You working in LA would have taught you how the coastal elites think. Even then you only barely absorbed it...tell me how the Electoral College works again. But it didn't help you to understand the thinking and needs of the fly-over working class even if you wanted to learn, which I doubt.

Trump's major insight was to see the plight of the fly-over working class and seek to rectify it. Workers who have been abandoned by the system over the past 3 decades and abandoned by people just like Foxy.

Trump will probably fail because the task is too big and the globalist power structures aligned against him too strong. But the working class he represents won't go away

Yes Banjo, that's what I was talking about. Australians see US politics as a mirror of Australian politics. Therefore they see political parties in the US as being the same as parties here, with tight central control and all members falling into line behind the leader. But its never worked like that in the US.

That's why in my previous post I talked of MAGA Republicans, to distinguish them from the traditional Republicans. People like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell are just as anxious to court the coastal urban elites and Wall St as the Democrats are. They long ago abandoned the working class.

Trump's MAGA Republicans are in open revolt against the traditional Republican hierarchy which is, of course, fighting back to save their political career and power structures.

This is why a MAGA victory is all the more improbable given that it is not only fighting against the Democrats, the deep state and the media but also half of the Republican party.

" I doubt that they truly want to live in a regime similar to that of Putin’s Russia, Xi’s China or Kim’s North Korea."

Struth, talk about falling for the left wing media lies. Hook, line and sinker from Banjo. Trump the dictator is one of the more inane claims from the anti-MAGA crowd. And Banjo buys it. Tell me, if Trump wanted to turn the US polity into "Putin’s Russia, Xi’s China or Kim’s North Korea" why didn't he do it in his first term?

BTW in "Putin’s Russia, Xi’s China or Kim’s North Korea" those opposed to the regime get sued on trumped up charges and disallowed from running in whatever passes for elections. Which party in the US is doing that

mhaze,

Hasn't your doctor told you to stop have dinner parties for
four people unless there's 3 others there.

You old chap, have lost all credibility ages ago so give it
a rest. I don't bother to read everything you post. You lost me
years ago with your support of Cardinal Pell, Trump, Israel,
and your accusations of Biden molesting his daughter. Cringe-worthy
supports.

I'll repeat what I stated to you earlier -

Two words, one finger.

It's OK though.
I'm on 500 mgs of Fukitol.

Therapy helps, but I've found that obscenities is faster and
cheaper.

That's Foxy for you. When adult discussion is beyond your capabilities, go for the gutter.

mhaze,

My being adult depends on who I'm with.

You're simply not worth the effort.

Besides is you don't like my opinion of you you can always improve.

It's funny how when one is pushed to the limit and one
pushes back - you're blamed of being in the gutter.
Nah. I prefer to be reaching
for the stars - always. But sometimes things have to
be broken down so that the person you're
dealing with understands the message. Especially, for a
person who thinks they know it all.

As far as my living and working in the US? Los Angeles
was our base. Chosen because of its climate.
However, we travelled all over the US, working and living
and experiencing the country and its people. We also travelled
all over Mexico and Canada. They thought enough of us to keep
our jobs for us in Los Angeles. And when we decided to go back
to Australia - they tried their hardest to persuade us to
stay.

Our experiences in the US were very wide. Hence our concerns
about someone like Trump being elected. We're used to
a higher calibre of American leader coming from any side of
American politics. Trump simply does not have the qualifications
or skills for the job. We can only hope that Americans will
not re-elect him.

.

Dear mhaze,

.

Yes, I understand that party discipline is not as strict in the US parliamentary system as it is in the Australian Westminster parliamentary system Nevertheless, as I am sure you are aware, in the US, both houses of Congress, the House of Representatives and the Senate, have majority and minority whips.

But naturally, astute party leaders recognize the need for balance, because voters could easily oust any of their local representatives in both houses who repeatedly supported the party’s agenda over their constituents’ concerns, thereby jeopardizing the number of seats their party holds.

I guess it’s a delicate balancing act in all democratic legislatures, including in the US even though the latter is more liberal and flexible regarding respect of the party line.

As for the internal opposition between pro and anti-Trump Congressional Republicans, as I see it, the former outweighs the latter by a long shot. As things stand, of the 268 Republican Congressional Representatives, I doubt that there are even 10% who would openly declare their opposition to Trump today.
.

You ask :

« If Trump wanted to turn the US polity into "Putin’s Russia, Xi’s China or Kim’s North Korea" why didn't he do it in his first term? »
.

The political regimes in Putin’s Russia, Xi’s China or Kim’s North Korea, mhaze, are all autocracies, i.e., ‘government by one person with absolute power’, and as I indicated in my previous post :

“The Republican Party … continues to exist in name only. It no longer functions as a democratic political party. It has dissolved into a political organisation dedicated exclusively to the promotion of the personal interests of Donald Trump. … It is now under autocratic rule.

And, more than likely, the same schema would apply if, by misfortune, Donald Trump were to be elected President of the United States in November.”

Whatever the reason he didn’t do it in his first term, mhaze, he certainly seems determined to do it in his second term if ever he is elected.

.

" I prefer to be reaching for the stars - always. "

Always?

"I'll repeat what I stated to you earlier - Two words, one finger."

Its as though she can't remember what she wrote 3 hours previously and assumes no one else can either. Honestly!!

____________________________________________________________________

What I find most interesting here and in the other thread on Trump is that, despite the myriad assertions that Trump will be a bad president, not a single poster has listed a single Trump policy they abhor. This isn't about policy or policies or plans for the future. This is just straight up media designed Trump Derangement Syndrome where people are told they need to hate Trump for unknown reasons, and dutifully comply.

Trump is 1984's Emmanuel Goldstein bought to life.

I also find it passing-strange that those who constantly preen themselves as friends of the working class so vehemently hate the one man in the USA who is indeed representing the working class and seeking to improve their lot and future.

Quite a few history and psychology careers will be built around trying to make sense of these phenomena.

Much has been provided on the subject in the past.
Here are just two more links:

http://www.epi.org/publication/50-reasons/

And:

http://www.edition.cnn.com/2021/01/24/politics/trump-worst-abuses-of-power/index.html

MHaze. The only person whose lot that Trump is aiming to improve is Donald J. Trump

"The only person whose lot that Trump is aiming to improve is Donald J. Trump"

During the Trump administration, workers income increased faster than the inflation rate for the first time in 27 years. That is, the real buying power of workers improved for the first time in a generation.

Equally, unemployment for blacks reached the lowest level ever recorded and that of Hispanics was close to historic low levels.

These and other FACTS are the reason the working class are backing Trump.

There really are so many facts available about Donald
Trump. However, news outlets all seem to agree on the
dangers, should the man get re-elected:

Here's just one:

http://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/11/16/donald-trump-poses-the-biggest-danger-in-the-world-in-2024

I've been criticized for using obscenities when dealing with
people who support Donald Trump. That's because it's good for
my mental health in telling these people to f-off.

It's therapeutic and one of the best things I can do for my
self-esteem.

So, mhaze - Eff-off!

Just saying.

My apologies for the typo. Here's the link again:

http://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/11/16/donald-trump-poses-the-biggest-danger-to-the-world-in-2024

" I prefer to be reaching for the stars - always. "

Always?

Now she admits that was a lie.

The problem for Foxy is that she's incapable of defending the inane positions she adopts - or more exactly regurgitates. For example, I point out that she's in fact abandoning the working class when her self-image in one of working class warrior, but she cannot rebut those facts. Consequently she heads down the gutter in a vein attempt to salvage some self-esteem.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, we see Biden now bombing empty Iranian bases in Syria an Iraq having given Iran adequate warning and also bombing Yemen on a round the clock basis. Remember that Trump handed over a largely secure Middle East with the Abraham Accords securing peace in the region and allowing the US to contemplate a fuller withdrawal.

.

Dear mhaze,

.

You wrote :

« During the Trump administration, workers income increased faster than the inflation rate for the first time in 27 years. That is, the real buying power of workers improved for the first time in a generation.

Equally, unemployment for blacks reached the lowest level ever recorded and that of Hispanics was close to historic low levels. »
.

You didn’t cite your sources, mhaze. Would you please do so.
.

A politico article of 25 January 2024 indicates :

1. « The Commerce Department reported Thursday that GDP expanded 3.1 percent in 2023, a year that began with heavy odds of a recession and closed out with fourth-quarter growth that blew away projections. »

2. « Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said household median wealth rose by 37 percent between 2019 and 2022, according to the Treasury chief’s prepared remarks, which she called “the largest three-year increase on record.” She also touted the fact that wages are now growing faster than prices, pointing to a new Treasury analysis showing that a worker earning a median wage would have $1,400 left over after buying the same goods and services that they did in 2019.

3. « This story of the middle class is not separate from the state of the economy. It’s at the heart of it,” Yellen said in remarks in Chicago Thursday afternoon. “By middle class, I don’t mean a narrow or fixed group. I mean workers across industries and occupations— from firefighters to nurses to factory workers. »

4. « Rep. Brendan Boyle (D-Pa.) said in a statement shortly after the data release. “With last year’s numbers, average annual GDP growth for the first three years of the Biden administration comes in at 3.4 percent, far outpacing the 2.6 percent during the first three years of the Trump administration.” »

http://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/25/biden-administration-economic-growth-inflation-decrease-00137777

.

Kudos mhaze.

More should be said about Rino's and the cowardly contemporary Republican GOP establishment that have lost their way from people such as the Republican Founders including Benjamin Franklin. Franklin said that we should build hospitals for the poor not because it was good for the poor but because it was good for the rich. Wise words- that demonstrate an understanding of the interconnectedness and symbiotic nature of society. Trump seems to have a sense of the animus of Franklin.

I was amused at Trump's comment about Chao being "Mitch McConnell's Chinese fetish"- I think it was more an attack on McConnell- perhaps 'Pinko McConnell'- than Chao- especially given Chao isn't Chinese but Taiwanese. It seems to say something about Trump having a mind that he can simultaneously give a backhanded "compliment" to Chao while a backhanded "critisism" to McConnell. But it seems that Chao sadly didn't see it as a compliment- perhaps ceding the power to her husband. Perhaps in a sense McConnell is the senior in the marriage being the elected official. Interesting dynamic.

Someone posted the link below in one of the threads to demonstrate 'Trumps incompetance'- perhaps they could have chosen a better source than "The View".
Trump Sits Down For Heated Fox News Interview With Bret Baier | The View - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSyXYAgihsw&t=235s

They mentioned Chao in the interview

mhaze,

Wow.

It sounds like you're continuing to have a bad day.

I hope it gets better.

Accusing me of vulgarity?

Sheer BS!

Lol.

http://thefederalist.com/2020/11/02/under-trump-americans-have-seen-their-best-wage-growth-in-40-years/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/11/01/donald-trump-african-american-black-economic-progress-vote-column/6081310002/

Or you could go here and run the numbers yourself to reach the same conclusion.

http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-270.pdf

I wasn't the only one to accuse you of vulgarity.

You accused yourself....

"these people to f-off. It's therapeutic and one of the best things I can do for my self-esteem."

mhaze,

I'm out!

post-truth mhaze,

My goodness, running to Federalist now? Okay.

But it was good of you to post a government website.

Here is another recently released.

"Real wages have risen since before the pandemic across the income distribution. In particular, middle-income and lower-income households have seen their real earnings rise especially fast. And in the past 12 months, real wages overall have grown faster than they did in the pre-pandemic expansion."
http://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households

In truth both presidents would struggle to claim full credit for the rise in lower income wage increases since much of it can be landed at the feet of the States who aggressively increased minimum wage levels through both of their terms.

In terms of Black wages you have supplied an opinion piece by the head of the Independent Women's Forum (founded as "conservative alternative to feminist tenets" - Wikipedia).

If you go to the Brookings Institute link in the article you will find things aren't as good for Trump's record as you would make out.
http://www.brookings.edu/articles/black-household-income-is-rising-across-the-united-states/

It says "that the distribution of income in the United States is the most uneven it’s been since the Bureau began tracking it in 1967".

And while acknowledging Black wages had increased the supplied graph showed how much that increased had slowed compared to it under Obama and that the "level only slightly exceeded that (and was statistically unchanged) from 2017."

Again we would need to tease out how much was due to minimum wage rises by the States which would disproportionally raise Black wages.

SR,

Enough of a gap since your "federal debt" screw up to re-join? OK, and I promise to not mention that you utterly got the Federal debt numbers laughably wrong and then used data that had nought to do with Federal Debt to try to justify the innumeracy. We'll keep it between us, shall we?

I said "Equally, unemployment for blacks reached the lowest level ever recorded and that of Hispanics was close to historic low levels." Thanks for providing further links to support that fact. I wasn't talking about wages or 'buying power' but I can see why you'd want to change to that given how nebulous those numbers are and how easily they can be distorted or misunderstood, which is your stock in trade.

Banjo

"Tell me, if Trump wanted to turn the US polity into "Putin’s Russia, Xi’s China or Kim’s North Korea" why didn't he do it in his first term?"

Gunna comment on your hyperbole

post-truth mhaze,

What on earth are you jabbering on about now? I've looked at my original post and the link I provided.

It clearly states: "The federal debt held by the public went up, from $14.4 trillion to $21.6 trillion."

You seem to be claiming I got the numbers wrong which is utterly inane and churlish. If you want to make the case factcheck.org got them wrong then you are free to state your case but don't be doing insipid little jigs in front of us when you have absolutely no basis to do so.

Anyway it really is your normal way of doing things isn't it. I go and tear your assertions a new one and show how partisan and lightweight they are and your first reaction is to go on a baseless rant.

But this from you is telling: "I said "Equally, unemployment for blacks reached the lowest level ever recorded and that of Hispanics was close to historic low levels." Thanks for providing further links to support that fact."

Your blinkered partisan position on Trump is so ingrained you see imaginary things in links to support your world view.

There was absolutely nothing in the links I provided speak specifically to the Trump era.

"What accounts for this progress in Black incomes? One likely factor is increased employment opportunity. The share of prime-age (25- to 54-year-old) Black adults in jobs increased significantly in 38 of the 50 metro areas from 2013 to 2018."

Obama's second term started in January 2013. As the graph shows the vast majority of the increases in Black's income occurred in that term.

It really does show how infected by Trump Delusional Syndrome you really are. Please try and do better.

!. Your original post where you got the numbers so wrong was in response to Graham article so you didn't tear my assertions to shreds but tried in your own inept fashion to show Graham was wrong.

2. The numbers you quoted from your link weren't Federal Debt. They were Debt to the Penny numbers. You misunderstood your own source. I provided you with a proper source and it went over your head.

3. You keep wanting to talk about black wages to prove me wrong when I only mentioned black employment. Your links confirmed my point hence your attempt to change the goalposts.

Any chance that you'll address the main issue here or are you determined to remain mired in inconsequential minutiae?

.

Dear mhaze,

.

Thanks for providing your source information.

If you don’t mind my saying so, it’s a bit of a mixed bag :

1. “the Federalist” doesn’t appear to be very recommendable with its track record of disinformation and misinformation :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_(website)

2. Patrice Onwuka appears to be a hard-nosed conservative, but worthy of admiration given her modest origins and personal history.

3. As for the US Census Bureau’s Poverty Report, I see you posted the 2019 Report. Here is the 2022 Report (which was published in September 2023) :

http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-280.pdf

It indicates that the official poverty rate for Black individuals decreased between 2021 and 2022. The 2022 rate (during Biden’s presidency) was the lowest on record. Official poverty rates increased between 2021 and 2022 for the White and non-Hispanic White populations. Poverty rates were not statistically different for the Asian, American Indian and Alaska Native, Two or More Races, or Hispanic (any race) populations.

.

.

Pathological liar for President … anyone ?

.

Why not Donald J. Trump ? He can swear on the bible like he did before. His lies are true ! … at least, that’s what he says.

He lied when he insisted he won not only the presidential election against Hilary Clinton in 2016 but also the 2020 election against Joe Biden. Now he wants to be president again in 2024 because the twenty-second Amendment to the United States Constitution allows him to have two terms. Let’s see … that makes … one, two … sorry, I've lost count !

To tell the truth, that’s a physics problem that can only be solved by reference to Einstein’s theory of relativity regarding the space-time curve.

We have to bend reality a little to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the American Constitutionalists that what Trump continues to maintain to be the truth (that he, and not Biden, won the 2020 election) was, in fact, a lie.

But that's probably something for the US Supreme Court to decide - in Trump's favour, of course, (whatever that might be).

.

"Pathological liar for President … anyone ?"

They've already got one....
http://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/1753588503383089489

Quick, look away...if you don't see it it didn't happen.

"He lied when he insisted he won not only the presidential election against Hilary Clinton in 2016"

Banjo outs himself as an election denier.

Banjo thinks the Federalist is suspect because Wikipedia tells him that's what he should think. Why? Well they disagreed with the Covid authorities and in Banjo-land disagreeing with the authorities means you're wrong. I seems to me that, given wht we know about the lies the authorities both in the US and here said about Covid, disputing them should be seen as a plus.

Apropos... http://www.theepochtimes.com/health/for-every-life-saved-mrna-vaccines-caused-nearly-14-times-more-deaths-study-5579794?src_src=Aomorningbriefnoe&src_cmp=Aomb-2024-02-04&cta_utm_source=Aomorningbriefnoecta&est=RZubMKPc13vi23xnAVVe2ZzF4EfT4P%2F4SulAgwVby0VV%2BgDJyVIQp3RE4suE

Personally, I don't reflexively check what the authorities claim about a source. I check the value of what the source said. If the Federalist article says wages went up more under Trump than his predecessor I only care if that true, not tht the authorities tell me to ignore it.

It seems Banjo is going to double-down on Trump wanting to become USA's Putin. He didn't do it the first time, but this he will because...reasons.

Meanwhile Trump's opponents work to make the USA a one-party state...
http://twitchy.com/dougp/2024/02/03/elon-musk-outlines-bidens-outrageous-not-to-mention-impeachable-reason-for-open-border-n2392511

Finally, Trump now leads Biden by 5% (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/02/presidency-peril-trump-widens-lead-biden-brutal-nbc/). Another 5% and he might make Democrat cheating near impossible....but they'll find a way.

post-truth mhaze,

Well I have taken the time to go back and try and sort through your rambling responses, something I am less and less inclined to do nowadays.

So it appears you are in a pink fit because I quoted the US federal debt figures from factcheck.org without explicitly saying they did not include intragovernmental debt. How utterly inane. Intergovernmental debt in the US is mainly Medicare and Social Security trust funds. It only goes up as more contributions arrive which are then held by Treasury. They do not increase rapidly when presidents go on spending sprees or lower taxes, that only happens to the public debt.

Note Graham did not mention the deficit, nor the debt, for good reason. Trump's figures were horrible.

So all that fuss over something so small yet you are the one telling me to stop with the inconsequential minutiae? Why do you RWNJs project so much?

Grow up.

Oh good. You understand where you went wrong. Well that's a start.

.

Dear mhaze,

.

Thanks, I sifted through all that.

There sure is a lot of contradictory material out there on the internet on both Trump and Biden. I don’t think any of it is doing much good to either of them – and even less so to the American people generally, whether they vote or not.

To illustrate my point, here is just one contrary example to the ones you posted :

http://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-investigation-meme/

What I think would be preferable, would be a presidential candidate who could bring the American people together rather than separating them and, ideally, one who is not as old as the current front runners.

Interestingly, if Trump had not sought re-election in 2024, Biden probably would not have sought re-election either :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/05/biden-running-trump-2024/

As it stands, both Trump and, consequently, Biden are candidates.

But I suspect that if Biden wins, he may not serve out the full term of the presidency and pass the relay on to his running mate, presumably Kamala Harris who will turn 60 years old just a few weeks before the election in November this year.

As for Trump, I doubt that he would want to cede the presidency to anybody.

.