There still is the one state solution. Make Israel a real democracy with separation of religion and state and equality for all its people regardless of religion and ethnicity. Jews have prospered in the US and Australia which have a Christian majority. Why not give non-Jews a chance to prosper in Israel?

There can never be any peace until that terrorist state, Israel, becomes a democracy and stops its Apartheid behaviour.
EVER!

Have the Arabs in Israel or the territories ever been asked whether they want to be part of Jordan? This appears to be another exercise in imperialism where people are shuffled around and assigned to nations regardless of their wishes. HKOPS is an example of imperialism.

Biden's in no bind. The significance of that non-solution turning 1 is practically zero, as you've been banging on about it for much longer.

But the Palestinians don't want it, and many of them would never accept it.
The Jordanians don't want it.
Those Israelis who want a fair and lasting peace recognise that this will not bring it.
So of course Biden opposes that plan.

ateday

Yep … aim for a post apartheid South African state.
If you were to seriously research the result, I would safely predict, you would be shocked at the negative outcome that awaits your unrealistic dreaming.

Aidan

Since when in history, do people get what they want?

Israel effectively has the upper hand right now, with the situation in limbo as it is.

The Palestinian side show is detracting from the major issue of US meddling in the ME; particularly with its softening view of Iran and the implications that has for the future stability of Israel.

It is this main act with the most potential for long term bad outcomes for Israel, not the irrelevant issue of Palestinian separatist terrorism, supported by meddling Obama nightmarish dreaming of his version of the new world order.

It's only your opinion that the two-state solution is dead. And you and yours work assiduously against it.

Your Hashemite solution is not wanted by either Palestine or Jordan. And because that is so, bound to fail and prolong the unnecessary bloodshed.
Alan B.

If you get your information about Israel from the ABC, be advised that complaints by the Australian Jewish Association have resulted in two articles being re-written. The first article described a convicted terrorist who threw a grenade at civilians as an “ex-Palestinian freedom fighter”.

The second article has Israel killing "three Palestinians", when the three deceased were members of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade militant group: not just Palestinians.

AJA president David Adler accused the ABC of having “a long and disgraceful history of extreme anti-Israel bias”.

That long and disgraceful history applies to many anti-Israel commentators, and everything they say or write should be treated with care.

Dear David F.,

«There still is the one state solution. Make Israel a real democracy with separation of religion and state and equality for all its people regardless of religion and ethnicity.»

A solution requires a problem: what and whose problem in particular is this going to solve?

Your personal problem, I suppose - so true, that solution would indeed solve it.

What is commonly misunderstood is that Israel's so-called "100-year conflict" is essentially an intra-Israeli/Jewish conflict over the basic character of the country, where the local Arabs are only incidental and insignificant pawns. What is often overlooked is that Israel is a divided country and Israelis cannot even live in peace among themselves. A solution to the problems of most ordinary Israelis will unfortunately require the physical division of Israel, rather than your suggestion of forcing on them an even further layer of "unity" with the Arab population as well, with whom they share so little.

«HKOPS is an example of imperialism.»

Indeed, and you seem to wish to solve the problem of imperialism by an even greater imperialism?
Forcing everyone there to live together under the umbrella of Western civilised ideology, which most people there do not share?

Relative peace, without and especially within, can only be achieved once the land is divided as required, possibly into 3, 4 or 5 different states, each with its own unique character.

Yuyutsu

“ once the land is divided as required, possibly into 3, 4 or 5 different states, each with its own unique character.”.

Is that your own characterisation of the problem you believe it to be, or are there academic studies or past proposals concluding those ideas?

Dear Dan,

It is my own analysis, based on following closely on Israeli news at the source and talking with people in Israel.

When a rocket from Gaza falls and kills or wounds one or two Israelis, or causes a fire, you can see the faces of the extremist new Israeli ministers brighten, a sparkle in their eyes. They outwardly say "Terrible, terrible, revenge, revenge, oh what a bitter deadly enemy, kill them, kill them", but inside they smile and mentally count the votes that would bring them. Their reaction is obviously disproportionate to the actual "danger" which is dwarfed relative to the casualties of ordinary crime and road-toll. Yes, these rockets and other sporadic suicidal terror attacks can be a small nuisance, but relative to Israel's strength they are more like a mosquito. These irrational exaggerations expose the politicians' ulterior motive.

Ordinary Israelis on the other hand don't even mention these rockets and the like, they talk about anything else that interests them, about their own health and family and pets and travels and especially about the government's "judicial reform", but mentioning that a rocket fell 2km away doesn't even cross their minds, it's just like the rain. If I ask about it specifically they would just say, "ah, I think I heard something like that on the news yesterday, I don't know the details", then change the topic.

Further, when mentioning the word "enemy" with no particular context, what immediately comes to the minds of Israelis is the other political side, not Arabs or Palestinians.

[continued...]

[...continued]

Apart from the ultra-orthodox, a unique (and non-Zionist) group on its own and the Arab-Israelis, Israel is comprised of two groups - on the one hand the original Zionists who built Israel essentially in order to escape diaspora-style Judaism which they found suffocating, who instead wanted to become a "normal" (if not even socialist), "enlightened" and tolerant nation, replacing Judaism with the ancient Hebrew culture.

On the other hand are the "real Jews", who not only want to remain Jews, but consider themselves the "chosen nation" who were born to dominate the region and the world. Their guru is the late Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, who wrote in his book ("Orot"="lights"): <The difference between humans and animals is just quantitative, whereas the difference between Jews and gentiles is qualitative>.

That second group is now taking over Israel, essentially because they produce more children on average and so just managed to cross the thin 50% mark of over-18s.

And the original Israelis obviously don't want their dear country they and their parents and grandparents worked and fought so hard for, to be snatched away by these fanatic Jews, they don't want to have to live under a dark fanatic Taliban-like regime nor to be forced into exile again.

This is the real bitter war that goes on in Israel, the Arabs are just incidental and their suffering is just a collateral damage. They are used as proxies because the "real Jews" know that hurting them hurts the feelings of the original Israelis and the original Israelis know that supporting them inflames the "real Jews". Even their land is only used as a flag to incense political enemies, not because anyone genuinely cares about it.

diver,
>Since when in history, do people get what they want?
'Tis actually a common (though obviously not universal) outcome. Just look at how many countries have been granted independence since the UN was formed.

>Israel effectively has the upper hand right now, with the situation in limbo as it is.
Yes it does, but what should it do with its upper hand? Should it pursue peace and justice? Or should it try to grab as much land as it can at the expense of peace?

>The Palestinian side show is detracting from the major issue of US meddling in the ME;
Without it the US would have much less motive to meddle in the ME.

>particularly with its softening view of Iran and the implications that has for the future stability of Israel.
Israel's much stronger than Iran, and that's not going to change.

>not the irrelevant issue of Palestinian separatist terrorism, supported by meddling
>Obama nightmarish dreaming of his version of the new world order.
Obama's involvement has been very limited.

'Tis Netanyahu, not Obama, who's done the most to promote Palestinian separatist terrorism. Rather than addressing the injustices that feed it, he's used it as an excuse for continued oppression.

This is not so much a matter of Israel v Palestine as it is of those who want peace v those who don't. Unfortunately Netanyahu's in the latter category. So is David Singer.

Dear Aidan,

Good comments, thanks.

Just one remark:

«Unfortunately Netanyahu's in the latter category.»

Netanyahu in person is not in any category, he doesn't care about peace or war, territories or justice, nor even about "judicial reform" - his only concern is to stay out of jail and to provide for his family's financial high-maintenance needs. He is practically now a hostage of his party and coalition allies.

Dear Yuyutsu,

You wrote: "Relative peace, without and especially within, can only be achieved once the land is divided as required, possibly into 3, 4 or 5 different states, each with its own unique character."

My cousin was president of the Orthodox Union. He is friends w Netanyahu & sent me a picture of them together. Our views on Israel, on Judaism and many matters are diametrically opposed. However, we are both citizens of the same country, the USA, and wouldn't have it any other.

You poor simple fools.

And I mean no offence, but only wish for your salvation moment as did St Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus.
You’re blinded by the light of the Democrats at the moment, but there is hope as the landscape clears of the fog of self delusion.

I’d need a book as long as Tolstoys war and peace to highlight your blindness and it’s dangers.

Poor boy Netanyahu, I don’t envy him.

Dear David F.,

«My cousin was president of the Orthodox Union. He is friends w Netanyahu & sent me a picture of them together. Our views on Israel, on Judaism and many matters are diametrically opposed. However, we are both citizens of the same country, the USA, and wouldn't have it any other.»

I know two brothers, American Jews, whose views are similarly diametrically opposed - that much that when the one was invited to the Passover Seder next door to the other's apartment, his hosts had to make significant efforts to ensure that the other brother, who celebrated the Seder at the same time in his home, would not find out that his brother was next door.

Fortunately for you and your cousin, you are not living in Israel where one of you would be making laws and regulations for the other based on your opposing worldviews.

Or is your vision, perhaps, for solving all the problems of the Middle-East, to let Imperialist America take over Israel and its surrounding as its 51st/52nd state?
American states, you know, are also presently at each other's throat, especially on the issues of abortions, homosexuality, gender-change, racism and the death penalty.
I am very glad not to be an American.

One of the brothers, BTW, became a Canadian citizen. I don't know whether or not they also retained their US citizenship: would you perhaps like to see the USA take over Canada as well?

----

Dear Dan,

I very much appreciate your concern for my salvation. Thank you.

Place Jesus Christ in contemporary Israel or contemporary America - which side of politics do you think he would take?

Dear Yuyutsu'

I have no desire to make my cousin conform to my way of thinking. I am not a tyrant. We can live together in peace. People in the US differ in many ways. However, they are not literally at each other's throats and live in peace for the most part. To me democracy doesn't require that all agree, but it does require that we live in peace with our disagreements.

The United States has had a Civil War when the disagreements boiled into conflict. I hope it will not have another one. If Israel split up into several different national entities as you recommend they could get into conflict with one another as Israel and Judah did. My cousin emailed me today on a matter of family history. I tried to help.

Yuyutsu

34% in U.S., 18% (Pew poll), in Israel Believe it’s possible to believe Christ is the messiah and remain Jewish. Which category are you, to ask such a question?

Dear David F.,

«My cousin emailed me today on a matter of family history. I tried to help.»

I never suggested shutting down international mail, phones, internet or travel.

«they could get into conflict with one another as Israel and Judah did»

So what was that conflict about? Just who should be the king as the Bible claims, or rather what the science of archaeology tells us?

The whole region was subordinate to the Assyrian empire to which all local kings raised taxes.
Israel wanted to rebel against Assyria and asked Judea to join. Judea, which was smaller, was aware of its limitations, refused to cooperate and continued to pay their tax.

As we all know, the Assyrians came, easily quashed that rebellion and exiled Israel, yet left Judea intact. Wasn't its resistance worthwhile?

[archaeology also tells us that the tribes of Israel and Judea were not even related... but that would come outside the scope of this discussion]

Same for the United States: wasn't abolishing slavery a worthwhile cause for its great civil war?

There is this beach-game where the legs of pairs of competitors are tied and they need to run like that on the sand, whoever reaches the flag first wins... it's meant to be fun, but I don't think that running with one's legs tied throughout real life is much fun.

You may not like to impose your values on others, but some practical decisions in life are unavoidable despite all good intentions, for example which days are going to make your weekend - Friday-Saturday or Saturday-Sunday.

I like the following passage from the Bible:

`And quarreling arose between Abram’s herders and Lot’s. The Canaanites and Perizzites were also living in the land at that time.
So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herders and mine, for we are close relatives.
Is not the whole land before you? Let’s part company. If you go to the left, I’ll go to the right; if you go to the right, I’ll go to the left.”` [Genesis 13:7-9]

Dear Yuyutsu,

I like that passage, too. Goodbye.

Yuyutsu,
Other concerns may have become less important to Netanyahu but that doesn't make his primary concern his sole concern. He's always cared about territory and regarded peace as a low priority. He first got in on a platform of slowing down the peace process, which led to its gradual destruction.

Dear Dan,

«34% in U.S., 18% (Pew poll), in Israel Believe it’s possible to believe Christ is the messiah and remain Jewish. Which category are you, to ask such a question?»

Being "Jewish" is not well defined, there is no agreed definition, but according to the most common attempts to define Jewishness, my answer would be 'yes', a Jew may also believe in elves and unicorns and still remain a Jew.

Many Jews, historically, believed that such-and-such was the Messiah, Jesus Christ and Sabbatai Zevi, to name the two most famous among them.
Mainstream Judaism believes in the concept of Messiah, but considers any Jew who believes that a specific person is the Messiah to be a heretic.

As a Hindu, I believe that there are not one but many Messiahs. In the holy words of Shri Krishna:

"Whenever there is a decline in righteousness and an increase in unrighteousness, O Arjuna, at that time I manifest Myself on earth.
To protect the righteous, to annihilate the wicked, and to reestablish the principles of dharma I appear on this earth, age after age." [Bhagavad-Gita, 4:7-8]

I think that Jesus Christ was one of them.
Thus I believe that should Christ be placed in contemporary Israel or contemporary America, then he would obviously side with the righteous.

So to rephrase my earlier question to you: which of the sides in Israeli and American politics respectively, is more righteous in your view?

Yuyutsu

#So to rephrase my earlier question to you: which of the sides in Israeli and American politics respectively, is more righteous in your view?#

Self righteous would be a more fitting term for politics and politicians.

For example, I wouldn’t accuse Christ as being a self righteous person in his earthly form.
Certainly righteous though: But it’s entirely unfitting to include politicians and their political positions under a heading of righteous.

Not sure where you’re heading with this question.

I think though, the whole political scene in the West is one of “scumbagery” and totally unrighteous on all levels of its self serving motivations.

Can we blame the UN?