David f – you say you get my point, but you then go on to claim once again that you know what is right and wrong. My point though, as I have set out a couple of times is that, if atheism is true – which you indicate is your position - then notions of right and wrong are essentially useless and meaningless.

You then make the correct observation that there are many different religions which make different truth claims. It does not follow from that though, that just because there are many different views that they all must thereby be wrong. Logically it is quite possible for one to be right and the others to be wrong. The challenge then is to consider the respective beliefs to see which, if any, is true, rather than simply dismissing them all out of hand.

You make another correct observation that many (but certainly not all) people tend to stay with the beliefs they were taught when growing up. Again though, this does not tell us anything about whether any one belief is right or wrong. I think it is likely that most people don’t really bother to consider very deeply what they believe and it is simply easiest to just go along, often at just a superficial level, with what they have been told.

It never ceases to amaze me that, from my experience, most people don’t seem to want to make the effort to seriously consider the most important questions in life: how have we come to be in existence? is there any meaning or purpose to my existence? are we morally accountable beings? do we have free will? etc. Perhaps you would like to look at my website: www.atheismforkidsandteens.com

Yuyutsu – I don’t believe it is possible for all religions to be going in the same ultimate direction as they clearly making completely contradictory truth claims. At times you say “perhaps God exists” and then you say with great emphasis that “God does not exist”. Hmmm.

Dear JP,

I think there is no objective way to determine what is right and wrong. I have my opinions as to what is right and wrong. God-given opinions are merely the opinions of people who claim their opinions come from God. If most people in my society share the opinions of right and wrong that becomes what is right and wrong in my society. If my opinion as to what is right and wrong in my society differs from the law or the opinion of most people I may have a problem. If it is a trivial matter, a difference my society allows me to have or something I have no choice in I will live with it. If I feel I must do something about it I will try to change the law or commit civil disobedience. I appreciate living in a society which does not expect one to conform in thought and behavior and can change. When I was a young man I never thought about the possibility of same sex marriage. However, the needs of a part of society that has previously been reviled and condemned has been considered and accepted. I think the change is right.

I have thought much about these matters. I was raised to accept certain religious beliefs and, after much thought, have decided I cannot accept them.

I accept no religion founded on supernatural belief. None of them are based on evidence. It does not seem reasonable to me to follow any of them. The concept of God is a human creation, and I do not think any such entity exists.

I have considered why we are here and accept the scientific view that we have evolved from other forms of life. I don’t think there is meaning or purpose to any form of life including ours outside of the purposes we choose to give to it.

I have thought on the problem of free will versus determinism and have decided I can’t decide that question but will act as if I had free will.

Possibly more discussion is pointless.

We need to be aware of those that deny moral idealism, as it is they who have no qualms to kill or rape your wife.
The question to be asked is Who am I? If you are merely the cells forming your body, you have failed - the cells of every part of your body are replaced every 21 years from the things you have consumed. What is you are the life you have lived and the impressions you have made while alive, and it is these things that will determine your purpose in His Story. It is this that would allow others to judge who you are, and the contribution you have made to our history.

I don't quite understand why the discussion has become about an entity referred to as a god.
Surely it should be about truth?
Then we might well achieve some kind of result?
When the focus is upon observable truths, there is no room for fabricated entities.
Those ideas will fade in to the background, or dry up and blow away like tumbleweeds in a strong wind?
They disappear from your mental horizon, completely.
Truth is demanding. It demands a clean slate.

Surely a belief is something which is considered more likely than not to be true?
That being the case, there should be observable truth which supports a belief?
But for fictitious ideas, there isn't, is there?
So why harbour a kind of obsession about something which has no basis in fact?
Cease clogging your mental processes with absurdities, and free your mind for the real stuff.

There is no good or bad process in nature: things that happen are just different.
We benefit from something, so we call that good.
But another part of 'nature' might well call the same thing bad?
When we generate new 'happenings' that favour us, we might unnecessarily disrupt the natural world?
So a good idea would be to minimise our use of favourable happenings?
Live a quieter more thoughtful existence?
And always face the truth.

david f – you have added a couple of new points.

Firstly, you claim that majority opinion in a society establishes right and wrong. So, if most Germans had agreed with Hitler about the destruction of the Jews, would that have made such destruction “right”? Would those who opposed that majority opinion and tried to save the Jews have been acting immorally? I would be surprised if you would be happy with that but it necessarily follows from your claim.

You do say that in some circumstances you would be willing to engage in civil disobedience and perhaps that would be one of those instances, but, on your terms, it still would be the case that you would be the one who was acting immorally, not those who were destroying the Jews.

Secondly, on the subject of free will, you say that you have decided to “act as if I had free will”. That can only make sense if it is the case that we actually do have free will. Nobody makes decisions if determinism is true – things just happen as the unconscious laws of physics act upon matter, not because we choose them to happen. If this is an atheistic/material universe though, it is hard to see how free will is possible - as virtually all secular philosophers have concluded.

If you can show how both atheism and free will are true, I would be interested to read your explanation.

Dear JP,

«Yuyutsu – I don’t believe it is possible for all religions to be going in the same ultimate direction»

Well, while they obviously don't all go in the same direction, all true religions lead to the same place, to union with God.

Think of it as a wheel - if we start at different points along its circumference, then we need to take different directions in order to reach its center.

«as they clearly making completely contradictory truth claims.»

God sees to our hearts, not to our words. Please allow me repeat what I wrote yesterday:

"Regardless whether one is a believer or an atheist, one's level of discernment of goodness does not depend on beliefs, ideas or other mental gymnastics - only on the degree of purity of their heart."

«At times you say “perhaps God exists” and then you say with great emphasis that “God does not exist”. Hmmm.»

This idea about the presumed existence of God is modern and secular: it is neither religious nor Biblical!

God cannot exist because existence itself is in God.
To claim that God existed would mean to subject Him to His own creation - how ridiculous!
(and I wonder why the Church has not already denounced that stupid idea as a heresy).