As I grow older
I've come to see
That not everything is
As I'd like it to be

My back hurts more
My legs are sore
And it gets harder
To wash the floor

What brings me joy
And great delight
Are my four grand-kids
Who make things right

I'm very happy to be here
And this may sound a little queer
But I'm not looking forward
To be below the ground

It's not there I want to be found
At least not yet - which may sound queer
That's why I don't question
Why I'm here?

<<I find greater inspiration in the words of Jimmy Durante, “Why can't everybody leave everybody else the hell alone.">>

As a vegetarian, I wish the majority of Australians would do the same and leave the multiple animal species that exist alone, not have them killed and Australians move towards a plant-based diet.

Unlikely to occur I know, but as humans we all select what we consider right versus wrong. No one can truly claim directly or indirectly to have a value that is above and beyond someone else. I would argue only the arrogant take such a position and that is a selective view of mine in its own self, and I expect people to come out and deny anything put out that is a questioning of their own self - including me - by throwing a whole heap of red herrings into a discussion.

Dear JP,

I think it wrong to torture a baby for any reason. I don’t need a God or objective morality to think that is wrong. I empathise with the suffering of a baby. I would not want my children or anybody else’s children to suffer. I don’t need a God or objective morality to be horrified by a woman being brutally bashed and raped. Do you mean to tell me that those things would be ok with you if you didn’t believe in God? Do you think that people went around torturing babies and bashing women before there was any belief in God? Do you have any evidence to show that people who don’t believe in God behave any worse than people who do?

We live in society and depend on each other. That is true regardless of what we believe. As long as there is society there will not be every man and woman for themselves. I believe in being kind, being skeptical and questioning authority. I believe in being kind because I think it’s a better way to live in the company of my fellow human beings. I think faith can cause one to accept monstrous acts. I don’t need a religious belief to act decently. Maybe you do. Maybe you feel that you would go wild and be a horrible person if you didn’t believe in God. That’s your problem, and I feel very sorry for you if you only act well because you have a superstitious belief.

The morality of atheists and religious believers has been compared:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/02/210224143306.htm

“Analysis of the results suggests that theists are more inclined than atheists to endorse moral values that promote group cohesion. Meanwhile, atheists are more likely to judge the morality of an action based on its consequences. However, atheists and theists appear to align on moral values related to protecting vulnerable individuals, liberty versus oppression, and being epistemically rational, i.e.: believing in claims when they are evidence-based and being skeptical about claims not backed by evidence.”

You don’t have to believe in a deity to be good.

david f – you miss my point. In an atheistic universe there is no way to define what is “good” or “right”.

Yes, you have your particular preference for what you want to say is good or right but on every single issue there will be people who disagree with you. On what basis can you say that your particular preference is right or good and their preference is wrong or bad? Please tell me.

As I have said previously, if atheism is true then this universe and everything in it was not purposely created. It just happened into existence. There is no ultimate goal or meaning for the universe, for our planet or for our own personal lives. Things are not supposed to be one way rather than another. Do you dispute that? If you do, please tell me why.

If things are not meant to be one way rather than another, then there can be no objective “good” or “right”.

When we say that a certain behaviour is good or bad, right or wrong, we are measuring that behaviour against a standard. We can, of course, make up our own standards, and measure behaviour against those, but that is all they are – made-up standards. In an atheistic universe other people can make up their own standards too and often they will be different to yours.

At this point, if you don’t like their standards, you can claim that your made- up standards are better than their made-up standards. You can become very self-righteous, call them names, and abuse them. That may make you feel good but it does not make you “right” or “better” than them because there is no objective way to measure right or good in an atheistic universe.

That is why I say, without wanting to be rude to you, that, if atheism is true, then you are no better a person than Hitler. That is because the terms, better, worse, good bad, right and wrong are ultimately completely meaningless if atheism is true. That hurts, but logically it unavoidably follows.

I think we all have some understanding and awareness of who we are.
This leads to a personal 'philosophy' which helps us to understand and navigate life?
This philosophy needs to be based on truthful and logical principles.
Only these will allow us to make sensible and realistic decisions about living.

In our early years, we are guided by the philosphy of others.
But as we age, experience and awareness enable us to develop our own ideas.
At the same time, we are motivated by natural instinct, the pre-programmed responses we make to various stimuli.
These responses usually manifest themselves as emotions.

Principles based on truth are necessary for our survival.
Far too many grown persons continue to accept and follow the principles of others.
They don't question these, even when those principles are demonstrably wrong.
This leads them to a 'zombie' like state, which I view as rather nasty and demeaning.

Those with less than adequate basic principles will tend to make irregular decisions.
They are trying to live life according to a set of principles which are not fact based.
They are also likely to be driven more by emotion than reason?
Life for them is not as stable or productive as it could be.

This affects others.
It can cause unrest and discord amongst the people.
Somewhat like water trying to flow in many directions at the same time.
Though I doubt we could all embrace a life lived by reason only.
Emotion is too important.
But at least we can ponder the wisdom of it?
And modify our behaviour to achieve less conflict?

Just another thought or two.
Around us is matter.
We are made of it.
It moves constantly.
That is what change is: the movement of matter.
There is no good change or bad change.
It is all just things that happen.
We really need to get used to that idea.
There is no NATURAL good or bad, right or wrong.
People need to stop propagating such silly ideas?

Some changes benefit us, and some don't.
Those that do allow us an advantage must inevitably cause disadvantage to something else?
We clear the land to plant crops, which is to our advantage.
This displaces and causes loss for another group of living things on this planet.
And so it goes.
We use reason to plan changes that benefit us.
We call those changes the good ones.
A mistake causes an aircraft to crash.
We call that a bad thing.
In fact it is all just change.
But all change is not good for us.