This topic reminds me of pot, kettle, black.

One side claims outrage and end of the world at some sacrilege committed by the other side. Then they change sides and repeat. They need to grow up and recognise that either they recognise each others right to exist and all that flows from that or get on and end the conflict by totally annihilating the other side.

I don't see a half way house anywhere else. The second option won't be nice but best leave it to them, get out the pop corn and watch, like the Romans at the Colosseum.

My two bobs worth

dkit

A non solvable problem...

Yes, this is a conflict with no end in sight! Until and unless leaders for both sides sit down and nut out a two state solution all can live with. Or live with a bloodbath that makes anything before pale in comparison.

Promising but never ever delivering has fueled the conflict like never before as has the unstoppable annexing of former Arab territory!

Every boy and his dog knows what is needed! But, what is missing are leaders willing to sit down and negotiate a enduring treaty based on a two state solution all can live with.

Part of the key is industrial scale potable water, available and truly affordable, via deionization dialysis desalination and ultracheap MSR thorium nuclear power!
Alan B.

It seems to me that neither side is motivated by reason.
It is all instinct, and more instinct, showing up as emotional outpourings.
These lead to irrational action, which means a continuance of unrest.

Until they look hard at themselves, and acknowledge that their basic principles are wrong, nothing will change.
I mean the principles which underpin thought processes, and enable humans to reach rational conclusions.
These can only be truth-based principles.
Otherwise, logical conclusions cannot be reached.
Story based principles are no longer going to cut it.

It should be noted that children are not born with the kind of attitude being demonstrated by the elders.
So children are being groomed, or trained, or indoctrinated, with a hotch potch of nonsensical ideas.
That to me is the elders failing to be good parents.
Failing to encourage truth and logical thought in the minds of the young.
They seem to be more concerned with continuing a feud.
I sometimes wonder what they would do if peace reigned.

The only hope for the future is in the small pocket of logical thought which must exist somewhere.
Eventually, that reason will spread like a wave, and engulf those who persist with absurd notions.
So time can heal, but before that happens, much grief will occur, which will blight their existence?
That is a great pity.
And all because they won't let truth prevail.

Perhaps Putin could do something there ?

Just like the aboriginal question here. Not worth discussing. Nothing is going to change.

The trouble is of course, that there is enough hate & so many ratbags on each side, that any Palestinian or Israel leader who does negotiate a peace deal will probably not be a leader the next day.

The Irish ratbags finally got there, so there may be hope, but only may.

Irish ratbags, Hasbeen?

My Great Grandmother told me that the English emptied the prisons and put inmates in black and tan uniform and then let them lose in Ireland, to basically rape and pillage at will.

Then they imposed the high church of England on Irish Catholics, who demanded a 10% tithe from folks living on a few miserable acres with maybe, a cow a horse a few pigs and some chickens to sustain a bare minimum lifestyle.

And when all had been pillaged/stolen, those remaining were sent to workhouses, working as virtual slaves!

My G.G worked from first light until deep into the night sewing silk shirts by hand for English dandies. And got sixpence per hand sewn shirt. She laboured for twenty years 24/7 to make enough money to pay for her voyage to down under, then several more down under as a domestic, to pay for her brother.

They had reasons to rebel and still do, if the truth be known. As for ratbags, a perfect description of English overloads in both Ireland and the Scottish highlands where the highland clearances are not forgotten! Suggest you comment on something you have actual knowledge of instead of firing from the lip as is your want. And maybe engage brain before putting mouth into gear.
Alan B.

No possibility of two state acceptance.
Allah requires that land once occupied by moslems remains moslem forever.
As the moslems invaded the area and
occupied it, threw out the Jews and now the Jews are back.
But Allah says it is moslem land. End of story !
It is Allah's mind that has to be changed !

It is a recipe for more death and destruction.
The only way to stop this conflict appears to
be - either Palestinian capitulation or the
transformation of Israel.

Neither scenario appears likely any time soon.

"Allah requires that land once occupied by moslems remains moslem forever."

O Bazz, O Bazz, you have completely misunderstood my words!

How can land be Muslim when it is all mine, been so since its creation and even before, long before humans existed, let alone Muslims, and will remain mine alone until its very end, even after, long after humans are extinct. This land I allow my creatures to live on, beasts and birds and worms too, how could it belong only to humans, how less so to only one group of them?

This land has shifted around the planet, changed its shape and form many times, rose up from the oceans and sank under again, mountains and canyons came and went and will continue to do so, and the soil on which my Prophets stepped is not the soil on which you step today.

I suggest you read my book again, from the beginning, without skipping and under the guidance of a competent teacher.

Yuyutsu, your book is mostly fiction.
David

Why "mostly", David? The whole world is my fiction, this book included.

Well, it dos not matter whether I am right or Yuyutsu is right
the effect is the same.
If the rest of the world can accept thatis what they believe
then the only solution can be to build a real or virtual wall
around the middle east with a segment with sea access for Israel
and ALL moslems kept inside the wall.

Then we will have peace or else.

A few comments about 'ownership'.
Nobody owns anything, unless they can defend their need to possess it.
The state is stronger, and better able to defend the need of a citizen to possess something, than the citizen himself is.

In the case of land, we OCCUPY it.
If we want to make use of it for a lengthy time, we must also be prepared to DEFEND it.
So ownership of a area is really 'occupy and defend'.
If a stronger force does arrive, and is able to drive us out, we no longer have occupancy.
So we would lose what we term 'ownership' of the land. (and everything in it)

Similarly with goods.
That which we call ownership is again a right to have access to an item for our own use.
This is guaranteed by the state.
It guarantees that if we purchase something, we will have exclusive title to it.
This can only continue if the 'state' remains strong, and defends our right to 'have and use' that item.

So ownership is arbitary, and lasts only as long as our ability to defend the use of that which we have in our possession.
To have ownership of something for a thousand years, someone must be able to defend it for that amount of time.
He must be able to prevent others taking over.
However, a group could 'own' land without defending it if there were no other people nearby.
Nobody would be trying to take it from them.
That is what happened in australia, because the land was so isolated?
That is what happens on our planet, because there are no aliens nearby who can come and take control?

The Eureka Stockader's put it differently paraphrasing "we built it we own it" rather than Ipso Fatso's "we defend/ invade it we own it".

The "we defend/ invade it we own it" philosophy seems to be a recipe for an arms/ population race.

Ancient soldiers leaving for battle instructed to create more soldier-sons.

But philosophy is- fluid.

The joys of "idealism" rather than materialism or dualism- Yuyutsu should go and stand in traffic to determine if the world is in his imagination.

Ironically "cellular automata" have been said to mimic the mathematical abstraction of reality and the universe- so in a sense maybe he's correct- there are some that have asked the question "what is reality- and how is it constructed from primitive axioms"- "what are spacial dimensions- what is time- does space exist without matter"- John Wheeler discussed some of these- paraphrasing "space tells matter how to move- matter tells space how to bend".

At some point the universe and reality seems to evaporate into abstraction- but still consciousness exists- "Cogito Ergo Sum!"

Alan B- "demanded a 10% tithe"

Answer- There are ratbags all around- but I think Hasbeen was referring to people that blew up train stations whatever their reasons. But a little ratbaggery is sometimes necessary to thrash out things.

The 10% tithe seems pretty good compared to our taxation system- maybe I'm missing something.

Thanks for your comments and our history Alan B.

I normally don't mind this bloke's article but this one is agenda driven laziness.

The four Israelis who died were attacked by an Israeli citizen with ties to ISIS.

Why is it being framed as a Palestinian issue?

Same with the shooting of the two policemen. Again ISIS directed.

Why should ISIS operations in Israel, involving Israeli citizens as the perpetrators, be placed on the shoulders of the Palestinians?

The shooting of 5 people near Tel Aviv was instigated by a Palestinian militia and carried out by a West Bank Palestinian and should be condemned.

This is in light of an escalation of killings by the Israeli security forces in the West Bank.

"In the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Israeli authorities continued to conduct punitive demolitions of homes of Palestinians who had carried out, or who were alleged to have carried out, attacks against Israelis. This collective punishment disproportionately affected women and children. Israeli authorities also withheld the bodies of 23 additional Palestinians, including children, killed by Israeli Security Forces during this period.

The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli Security Forces in law enforcement incidents more than tripled, compared with the previous reporting period. Israeli Security Forces killed 74 Palestinians, including 17 boys and three women, compared to 23 during the last reporting period."
http://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2022/03/occupied-palestinian-territory

Terrorism from both sides needs to be recognised and condemned by all, not just primarily pointing at one side all the time.

Alon Ben-Meir said- "four Israelis were killed during a ramming/stabbing attack in Beersheba by a Bedouin-Israeli"

Answer- Yes this is happening in Australia too. Though the authorities are doing their very best to hide it.