Refugees have "nothing to be proud of" while "ordinary Ukrainians are spilling their blood to defend their homeland". The very word 'refugee' sets my teeth on edge. We have given them open sesame for three years, with all the trimmings, which really means we will have them permanently. People who won't fight for their own country are hardly the sort we want here.

All this sentimental claptrap and virtue signalling ignores history, and is rooted in the idea that Putin and Russia must be wrong just because they are Putin and Russia. People who are clearly not heroes are being hailed as heroes just because they are not like Putin. If you want to concentrate on personalities and big egos, have a good look at that squirt of an ex-comedian playing at being president of the country he is allowing to be ripped to shreds for some crappy principle that is about as stupid as the old 'better dead than red' mantra of the Cold War days. I'll bet that he will eventually piss off before the Russians get him, leaving a lot of unnecessarily dead people behind.

ttbn,
Tough but true !

individual,

Thanks. Probably not popular with the usual suspects but, as I said before, one can regret what is happening to Ukraine without talking BS.

One could argue the pros and cons for hours.
And get nowhere.
This one said that, the other one did this....
But this is not a movie.
This is real life.
As far as I am aware, Ukraine did not attack Russia.
Russia attacked Ukraine.
And, as far as I am aware, without GOOD reason.
It did have a reason of course, but it was not defence.
So it was aggression with a particular purpose?
Let us retreat from talking about personalities.
And concentrate on the fact that one country is killing the citizens of another country.
For reasons which are not defence....
Think about why that is happening....

the opinion by medical people is that Putin has a personality that
would use nuclear weapons.
Not sure if they can tell this without interviewing him.
However his troops seem to have orders to kill civilians.
To kill a queue of people lined up for bread !
Is that different to using a nuclear weapon in Putin's mind ?

The only deterrent could be a warning if he does then Moscow will not
exist by tomorrow noon.

Hard to disagree with any of this! And I agree there needs to be more boots on the ground in neighbouring states. And these don't need to be U.S. boots but E.U. ones.

Moreover, there needs to be a no fly zone and safe corridors, into E.U. and NATO signatories!

But never into Russia! As this could result in slavery and enforced labour in Russian Gulags?

The west (nuclear armed France, Germany) needs to step up and call Putin's bluff. Time is well past for the entirely unprovoked, blatant bloody butchery to end! And end it should before the whole world is embroiled in WW111? And a no holds barred, nuclear war?
Alan B.

Well put Ipso fatso! I could not have said it better! Sadly one of the first casualties of war is the truth! And one only needs to look at ttbn's contribution to understand that, in spades!
Alan B.

You off-the-cuff commentators, especially those whose posts look like shopping lists: no sentences, no paragraphs, need to start reading some books.

Alan,

You old schizophrenic, calling me mate and agreeing with me a couple of days ago, but now casting aspersions on my ability to tell the truth. You could have been Vice President to the comedian in Ukraine.

Here's the real question.

It is becoming more and more apparent. As time passes, the Russian invasion is stalled.

The Ukrainians are winning on the ground.

Putin is countering the defeat with bombardments of civilians FROM Belarus, Crimea, and Russia. He thinks the military will be demoralised.

The question: Whatwill the west to do when Ukranians start attacking the military bombardment sites in Belarus, Crimea and Russia? That's why they are saving their aircraft and why Biden doesn't want them to have those Polish Migs.

The gutless Americans, Europeans and others, standing in gallant support of Ukraine, but refusing them aircraft and not allowing no fly zones, will never support the counter attack into Russia and Belarus.

Of course the cowards will all stand and utter support for their Ukranian 'friends, but all will condemn such Ukrainian attacks as 'unlawful, barbaric escalations.'

Watch them. They'll show their usual colour, of cowardice, because they fear the Big Bully Boy, one of their ilk, Putin the petty bureaucrat.

What are the stupid Chinese going to think and how will their support of Putin and Russia's defeat be seen within the cowardly CCCP and across the world? The opening chasms of fear, loss of face, of money and of trade in their already crashing economy will tear them utterly apart. The signs are already occurring.

The Ukranians have stood up to the bully while the managerial elites in the west dither. Biden, Psaki, Trudeau, Boris, Macon and all their other comrades, among the 'educated elite socialists and bureaucrats', across the 'free world', all look silly and as hypocritical as they are.

Our magnificent useless 'leaders', spout magnificent articulate words, but not truth, and continually do next to nothing.

The Ukranians, with their magnificent leaders, are showing how they should all behave. As Trump did. (Who is Zelenski's Deputy? Here is a tip, it is a woman, she's armed too.)

Our useless leaders can't even behave decently. It's just not in their 'educated elite DNA'.

Lot of waffle about no fly zones.
To have no fly zones you need to take out the surface to air sites.
Then your aircraft can enforce no fly on the enemy.
However most of the sams are in the southern areas would be in Russia
or in Northern areas in Belarus.
That could just be what Putin the nutter is waiting on.

The Russian army is suffering huge and unsustainable losses. Although Putin's autocracy is a Nazi regime, unlike Nazi Germany the conventional army is not state of the art and poorly organised. However, it is very good at killing unarmed civilians, especially women and children, as well as destroying cities and infrastructure.

I think the next six weeks will be critical. If the Ukranian army can maintain a well organised and equipped force it could disable over half the invading force by that time. I observe with interest.

I wonder what the Ukrainians thought when they took the risk they did ? Did they really believe the West would risk triggering WW3 just because Ukraine wanted to be independent ?
It's a dreadful stalemate.

What did the Ukranians think? Been there. Done that. Never again thank you. Why do you think appeasing Putin a better idea? Russia should be one of the wealthier countries. Putin is as disastrous for Russians as he is for Ukranians. At least the Ukranians are resisting.

Why do you think appeasing Putin a better idea?
Fester,
I didn't say Putin was a better idea. I just think that idealism has a lot of risks involved but the proponents of idealism unwisely waive the possible consequences.
How many Ukrainians would think the risk of WW3 is a worthwhile choice ?
The Yankers & Nato certainly think so !
Co-operating with a regime would surely offer a better chance for improvement than perpetual opposition.
Just a thought !

individual you are behaving as a weakling appeaser.

Cooperating? They tried that three times and now they are being invaded. Marioupol's treatment would suggest that Putin is quite happy murdering people. I don't think the Ukranians have a choice and I am glad they are being supported. As much as I enjoy viewing disabled Russian tanks, I think that the videos goad Putin to more extreme violence. Maybe the Ukranians should be more restrained, at least until they are more able to protect their citizens.

My heart goes out to the Ukrainian people.
This conflict is not about Putin vs. Ukraine.
It's about the world fighting evil.

"First the Ukraine, then Poland and Romania
Followed by Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania
Do we want the USSR re-instated
Ruling Eastern Europe unabated?

The world must unite and be fully aware
That this is a battle that we all need to share
Putin must be stopped in his tracks
Otherwise no sovereign nation can truly relax."

Fighting evil? Isn't that what Vlad is doing? I think the movie Tucker and Dale vs Evil demonstrates the folly of this objective.

Foxy

You are wrong and as misguided ... like all the elitists..

The west isn't fighting the Russian's evils.

The Ukrainians are fighting the evil fascism of the Russians.

The west, as of yesterday, is now pitted to fighting Biden and his mates, the elites, and their 'new world order',

Whatever the hell that is!

But it certainly doesn't include supporting unconditionally the Ukrainians, their independence and freedom against the evil Russian fascists.

When are you going to realise our enemy is the disease of the 'elite educated' lying fascists, who won't defend the freedoms our past generations won and defended, ... for us.

Fester

It won't be six weeks.

Russian losses from desertions, pows, wounded and killed is between to 60,000 to 90,000 out of a 200,000 invasion force.

(The Russians claim only 10,000 kia. Usually wounded are 5 to 1. so assume 60,000)
he Ukrainians claim 15,000 kia, so assumption would be 90,000.)

No wonder Putin is calling on foreigners to help fight his doomed campaign.

He's now trying to replenish his cruise missiles from China. Watch them refuse. They'll be terrified of western sanctions.

So what will prevent the Ukrainians firing US and German made cruise missiles into Russia, Belarus and Crimea.

Yep that's right, the coward's refusals to supply them.

I'm forgetful.

The Chinese will not just fear the West reaction more fundamentally they'll fear Russia wont be able to pay.

Report tonight has that the Russians at NW sector of Kiev have been
surrounded and cut off from other Russian forces.
If it turns out to be true, it will give the defenders a real win.

imajuliannutter,

Well you certainly sound like a nutter.

Me an elitist?

No, I'm a Westie originally from Sydney.

And your references to Russian "Nazism?"

Sounds like you're buying into Putin's propaganda.

The same propaganda that was applied in the territories
"liberated" by the Bolsheviks, in the captive nations occupied
by the Red Army during World War II, and in the lands won my
military force or "wars of liberation" in Asia, Africa, the
Far East, and the Caribbean.

Our armies fought to establish a man's right
to liberty. Foreign to the system resulting in
communist controlled lands. The
distinction is one between freedom, liberty, and the right to
the pursuit of happiness as opposed to the interest, control,
and the domination of the state over the individual.

Putin's plans are so repulsive to the traditions of Western
democracies - and that is why the West needs to join the
Ukrainians in fighting Putin. Fighting for freedom is not
elite - whereas under Putin - it's only the elite who have
freedom. The average person does not. And if they speak out they
end up in jail or dead.

Imajuliannutter, Nobody thought that the Ukranians would fight like they have. That is why there was no attempt to better equip them earlier. There is a big effort now. I hope they can keep inflicting great losses on the Russian forces. Five generals out of twenty killed so far.

I understand that there is a lot of resentment towards the Russian Puppet in Belarus. Now imagine if the west started arming the dissidents in Belarus and opened a second front for the Russians?

The Ivans would collapse in a couple of weeks.

Foxy

Why did you sink to personal abuse?
That is a bullying behaviour.
Forthrightness is more difficult than abuse.

To restate my view of your comments:

'This conflict is not about Putin vs. Ukraine.
It's about the world fighting evil.'

That is a load of codswallop. The world is sitting on it backside talking just like you are.
Waffling about what all the world needs to do.

'The world must unite and be fully aware
That this is a battle that we all need to share'

Without, repeat without, telling us how. Without urging the likes of Biden, Psaki, Macron, Trudeau, Boris and the other coward elitists to go to war with the fascist Russians.

That, FOXY is the typical behaviour of the useless elites.
Your incantation is exactly the same.ie tell us what to do without saying how.

Our difference is, you see yourself and are still a 'westie from Sydney', I'm was an embryo who has grown into an intelligent adult.

Me buying into Putin's , propaganda?
There you go again, Foxy, wrong. I'll correct you.

One,
It isn't, as you say, Putin's propaganda that says the Ukrainians are nazis.
It is Russian Propaganda. Russia has invaded and is at war with Ukraine.
Two,
You say I made reference to Russian nazis.
In here I've referred to Russian fascists not Russian nazis.
You are confused.

cont...

imajulianutter,

How on earth can I argue with the logic of someone
who calls himself a nutter, and tells me that I am
wrong and misguided ... like all elitists, then
accuses me of stooping to abuse?

Cont,

Another couple of facts you've missed:
-the Ukrainians fought alongside the Germans, who they felt, liberated them from the Russian communism fascists.
-the Russians conducted a genocide of starvation against the Ukrainians after ww2.
-the most peaceful leaders of the former ussr were the Ukrainians Nikita Khrushchev and
Leonid Brezhnev ... yep during the Cold War, when no wars were conducted in the tinderbox of Europe.
-It wasn't our armies that established man's right to liberty, it was the great thinkers of the past 2500 years who voiced and codified the behaviours (way of life) of the individuals within their communities, and who are still doing that today. I'd suggest you read of their Great Conversation ... conducted over many centuries. Start with the Egyptian 'The Precepts of Ptah Hotep', from 2350 BC.
-at the moment in the west entrepreneurs and working people are not free. Our freedoms have been suppressed and vilified by the 'educated elites', in our governments, public services, international and national corporations, media and education institutions.

Trump reversed that.

Read James Burnham, The Managerial Revolution 1945 and The Machievallians 1949.
They would lead to improvement and correct your cockeyed world view.

In Australia today fascism is rife.

imajulianutter,

I appreciate your taking the time to explain your position
to me.

I appreciate that.

Well Foxy,

I think that you and IJN both care about people. That is what distinguishes you both from people like Putin. I think that going after evil can be a bit nebulous and cause collateral damage, like a war on terror for example.

Reports on BBC News on internet. Russian TV Network has warned that
Warsaw could be attacked with nuclear weapons.
This appears to relate to the hundreds of MIG fighters that can be made
available to Ukraine.
The speaker appeared to be a government official.
Whether it is a bluff or not it is a very frightening development.
I suspect that they are mad enough to do it.
It is to be hoped that some nuclear armed government has warned that
likewise Moscow could disappear.

Thats what the west gets when it wages economic war against nuclear powers.

Dear Fester,

Thanks for your kind words. Of course there are always
risks involved in any conflict. But sometimes the risks
are worth taking when you look at what the alternatives
are.