Nobody should be still listening to out-of-power crackpots like Keating and Rudd. Those two are well and truly off their trolleys. Only people benefiting from China would utter the rubbish they do.

"First, end the silly claim that Australia is part of Asia, and accept that we inhabit a different continent, that we have a different culture, and that our liberal democratic values are integral to enjoying one of the highest standards of living in the world."

That really needed saying. The rot that we are part of Asia has always been ridiculous. What's next? Antarctica?

An excellent article. The sooner we shed China the better. We should not be guided by people who need China to satisfy their own greed or vile ideology - or, their idiocy.

Keating is correct. We should indeed << ''cut the tag'' with United States' foreign policy and seek a better relationship with China. >>
China's assertiveness toward the US and its deputy sheriff in the Asian region, Australia, is nothing more than entirely reasonable push-back in the face of the military incursions, trade sanctions and political interference the US has imposed on China for over a decade now. We need to stop toadying up the US and independently restore our once cooperative and respectful trading relationship with China. Neither the US or Australia is in a position to point the finger at China for human rights abuses. We have plenty of our own. And while both our governments ignore the ever-expanding wealth disparities tearing at the fabric of our democratic societies, China has very deliberately set about lifting many millions of its citizens out of poverty and is succeeding.

Bronwyn,

I thought Foul-Mouth aka Guangzhou Joe, Foxy aka the Beijing Butterfly and david f were ultra Chinese supporters but my God you leave them for dead.

You definitely deserve a codename: The Shanghai Serpent.

North Korea is becoming disillusioned with China, and is even offering to help the West contain the bully as long as their nuclear arsenal is accepted, and the West helps with aid to improve its economy.

ttbn,

Only for the most gullible.

Don't trust the North Koreans as far as you can throw them.

Yes and not the only sleepwalking toward our own demise as an independent sovereign nation, frog in bowl mistake we've made!

The other a self-imposed irrational decision to abandon all nuclear technology, including nuclear power. As we dismantled as much cooperative capitalism as we could along with a formerly robust manufacturing sector! All done to achieve an insane political outcome and half a dozen seats?

As a nation with a few nuclear-powered subs equipped with retaliatory nuclear missiles, we'd be able to chart our own course without selling our soul, for a few dollars more, to China! TBC.
Alan B.

Mr Opinionated
Once again, and it is becoming tiresome, I suggest you rebut my arguments, instead of lazily resorting to personal put-downs. Any fool can do that and besides yours aren't nearly as funny as you obviously think they are.
And BTW, North Korea is in a similar situation to China. It too is being heavied, militarily-surrounded and economically-sanctioned by the self-appointed policeman of the world. The US obliterated North Korea in the early fifties and has ever since obstinately refused to apologise or to sign a peace treaty as North Korea has humbly requested on numerous occasions. Why is it acceptable for one country to carpet-bomb another to smithereens and then refuse to allow its victim to build a nuclear defence? I'm totally against all nuclear, but I do understand why North Korea is finally resorting to what it perceives to be a necessary defence. It's tried olive branch diplomacy, but the US won't give an inch. Nuclear is North Korea's last ditch effort to get America off its back.
And BTW, ttbn, I'd be very surprised if North Korea is 'disillusioned' with China. Yes, they have some occasional border issues, but for as long as they're both being harassed by the same bully, I'm pretty certain they'll stand by each other, especially North Korea. Afterall, it was China who came to North Korea's rescue during the American attack. I could be wrong ... some sources from you would be useful.

Bronwyn aka the Shanghai Serpent,

I don't know what they have been telling you at the Beijing School of Espionage but I must tell you that South Korea and North Korea are still at war.

Although it is what I would call a symbolic war in which China and the US get to showcase their political ideologies.

//Neither the US or Australia is in a position to point the finger at China for human rights abuses. We have plenty of our own.//

Sorry, I'm having a bit of a trouble following your maths here. Just how many wrongs is it that add up to a right? Do we just count the ones of belonging to China and Australia, or should we account for the Muricans as well?

Because where I learnt ethics, zero and only zero wrongs can ever amount to something resembling right, and summing a whole buch of wrongs just ends up in gross immorality.

//And while both our governments ignore the ever-expanding wealth disparities tearing at the fabric of our democratic societies, China has very deliberately set about lifting many millions of its citizens out of poverty and is succeeding.//

But they also torture people and harvest oragns and ruthlessly crack down on political dissent etc. Let's face it, the Chinese regime are not a nice regime by any reasonable metric. They are words that I can't use on this forum because Western Conservatives are true champions of freedom of expression... apparently. The words that I would like to use but can't because of the freedoms we enjoy in a liberal democracy like Australia include [please remove the profanity], [please remove the profanity] & [please remove the profanity].

I'm not convinced that they're human rights abuses can be excused by the nice things they do. I think China are big enough to walk and chew gum at the same time: why can't they figure out a way to lift their people out of poverty, and to cut back on their torture and organ harvesting at the same time? It's not exactly quantum electrodymanics... lots of other countries have figured this one out, what's holding up your mob?

According to one China watcher, we are at war with China. While the war is now a political, diplomatic, financial and trade one, it looks like a prelude to a real military war. (Ken Phillips, The Spectator Australia).

The war is about the “maintenance of a China under Communist Party rule and a CCP that now seeks to expand its ‘right’ to rule outside its current borders”. Secret diaries of the man second in charge at the time of the Tiananmen Square massacre, smuggled out to the West, reveal all. Zhao Ziyang knew what he was talking about. After his opposition to the Massacre, he was placed under house for the rest of his life.

Suppression of dissent was then, and is now, central to the existence of the CCP.

When China sought to modernise, the “free world grabbed what was seen as an economic opportunity”. Wall Street helped the Chinese out by showing them how to reform their state-owned businesses, and taught the Communists about the market. And of cause the CCP elites grew rich. But, the naive hope that China would become democatic because of a market system fell flat.

Now, the Xi dictatorship feels that the free world is chaotic, prone to “rolling disasters” and a threat to China. So, they have decided, China has a ‘right’ to defend itself from the chaos. That ‘right’ requires the extension of internal discipline to “areas that China decides are its ‘legitimate’ sphere of influence and dominance. And, that sphere includes Australia.

After their direct military action in he South China Sea, China could be ready to invade Taiwan in in a couple of years. Ken Phillips likes Taiwan to WW11 Poland. And current war between China and Australia is a “mild warm-up exercise by China.

ttbn,

Looks like someone has been stealing my ideas.

Oh well, not to worry. At least I still get to say "I TOLD YOU SO".

Reading these post is a rude shock of where our education system has brought us to !

oops, should be 'posts'

//Reading these post is a rude shock of where our education system has brought us to !//

Fair point and well made: I deliberately misspelt Americans as Muricans (that was deliberate, based on the phonemes that inhabitants of the USA themselves employ to describe their once-great-nation).

//But they also torture people and harvest oragns and ruthlessly crack down on political dissent etc.//

Mea culpa: I just screwed up there. 'Oragns' should be read as 'organs'. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

//I'm not convinced that they're human rights abuses can be excused by the nice things they do.//

Sorry, should have been "I'm not convinced that THEIR human rights abuses can be excused by the nice things they do."

How embarrassing.

Personally, I think it's a great thing that tiresome old pedants are sticking up their hands to be first line in our defence against the Yellow/Red Peril. How useless would all of the under-70's be when they can't tell the simple difference between they're/their. I think next time we go to war, we should restrict the Australian infantry to those over 70: they might not be as fast or ruthless as the reddish-yellowish peril, but their anecdotes will be a lot more tiresome and pointless.

Under Xi, China is using Sun Tzu’s ‘The Art Of War’ - at the moment the techniques of winning without fighting, and using the enemy to defeat the enemy - which is occurring with all the talk about how we cannot win against China; how we will go broke without China; how giving in to China is “inevitable” - all defeatist claptrap put about by the likes of Keating, the leftist media, and big big business and mining.

At the moment there is no evidence that the China virus was deliberately let loose; but the gross overreaction from China to our demand for an investigation is very suspicious. And, forget the blah about China not wanting to infect its own people. Really? With their record? Life is cheap, and plentiful, in China.

Cont. Our gormless politicians have signed a FTA with China? Where we restrict our economic activity to that of a service industry economy? Buy all our manufactured products from China?

This hasn't served us well! A mutating covid-19 may mean our borders remain closed almost indefinitely? Our quarantine needs to be done off of the Australian mainland.

We must become as self-sufficient as is possible! Must create a paradigm that outperforms importing stuff from China or selling raw materials to them!

With that in mind, we must fully embrace cooperative capitalism!

Then create/enable, lowest cost energy distribution. Followed by a direct from factory to you distribution model! In the knowledge that the top amount of tax paid in actual dollars, by any corporation is around 13%, with some paying as little as 4%, up to 40% paying none!

Meaning, an unavoidable flat tax of 15% will collect more actual tax dollars! Given no reduction or reconciliation is required, the money we used to direct to that activity (around 7% averaged) can be returned to the bottom line! Meaning, the adjusted tax cost liability would be in adjusted terms, 8%!

Removing the paper shuffling profit demanding middleman, any non-essential retail outlets will, if the savings/cost reductions are passed on? More than halve the cost of living or doing business in this country!

To encapsulate, create co-ops to provide energy generation/reticulation (max 3 cents PKWH MSR thorium) plus all essential service, water delivery etc! Thus removing all the robber barons from our economy!

This one feature enabled as competing for your custom? (co-ops) Will ensure that genuine competition will prevail! Cooperative capitalism, i.e., co-ops will ensure all the income earned stays here working with export income, enabling every dollar to do the work of seven or more, in our economy, keeps any and all price gouging out of the production/consumption paradigm!

All the above must be embraced!

Cherry-picking any of it to serve powerful vested interest? Will surely ensure we are held in economic chains forever to our Chinese masters! CHOOSE ALL OR NONE!
Alan B.

<< ... the gross overreaction from China to our demand for an investigation is very suspicious. >>
Very understandable you mean? Covid-19 was commonly being referred to as 'The China Virus' in Australia and Chinese-Australians were suffering widespread ostracism and discrimination as a result. The US president has always called COVID-19 'The China Virus' ... and everyone knows our PM walks in a very pally lockstep with Trump. Of course, the Chinese saw our strident calls for an investigation into the origins of the virus as an orchestrated and predetermined witch hunt. Who could blame them?
<< And, forget the blah about China not wanting to infect its own people. Really? With their record? Life is cheap, and plentiful, in China. >>
You're right, life is plentiful in China. It is however no more 'cheap' or expendable than it is in the US. If you're going to persist in making these claims, you really need to start providing some supporting evidence.

Australia is now classed as an Asian nation-state and its people as Asians.

This is the consequence of four decades of Asianization aka Australian Multiculturalism that came out of the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) in Australian history.

This happened because Australia's politicians, bureaucrats and business people wanted to integrate Australia into Asia. This process has been successful and Australia now mirrors the greater Asian continent running from the eastern Mediterranean to the Pacific and from the Arctic to the Indian Ocean.

You people just have to accept it. There is no turning the clock back now.

Beijing Bronwyn,

Where is your "supporting evidence" for the crap you spew out? Just disagreeing with someone doesn't make you right.

Shame on you! You are a disgrace, living safely in a democratic county but supporting a Communist enemy of that country. Treason was a capital offence. It should be again. You disgust me, as do your disgusting pro-China posts, which I have no intention of wasting time on again.

ttbn,

Bronwyn's codename is The Shanghai Serpent.

I think she's either a Chinese operative or a collaborator.

Mr. Opinion,

She is certainly not much of an Australian. It's hard to believe that anyone could be that stupid about a totalitarian state that is such a threat to Australia. It's hard to believe that anyone not of the same ilk as the CCP would carry on the way she does. She seems to have replaced a Chinaman who used to put up pro-China propaganda here until he learnt that nobody was going to swallow it.

All this nonsense about Australia being part of Asia !
Another failure of the education system.
Australia is NOT in Asia and I'll bet your surprised to learn that
Indonesia is not in Asia. Another surprise for you, the Phillipines
also is not in Asia.
You lot need to tear up your Mercator's projection of the world.

As far as China goes, if they get more difficult then stop export of
Iron Ore and food to China.
They will understand that will be a long delayed bomb.
The coal ban has hit hard in China with shortages and blackouts.
Lose too much face to admit it !

Bazz,

Australia became Asian under the Asianization program aka Australian Multiculturalism during the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) in Australian history.

I don't know what rock you were hiding under over the past 40 years but everyone else was able to see what was happening.

I bet you live in one of those old remnants of a colonial town in the bush where the only thing Asian to ever happen was the town's only Chinese cafe.

You want to see what Australia looks like now then get your arse down to Sydney or Melbourne.

Here is a news item I just pulled off the web which I think pretty much typifies the general demographic of Melbourne today:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/victoria-records-zero-new-cases-of-coronavirus-for-the-tenth-day/ar-BB1cN8ay

But don't take my word for it, go and see for yourself.

Australia is now Asian and if the Chinese have their way the whole world will become Asian.

Bazz,

Right about Indonesia. Right about Australia not being part of Asia geographically. They don't talk the same about New Zealand, for instance, or Antarctica. We will have to watch NZ though, as long as Arden is PM. She proved that NZ is not part of the 'Five Eyes' coalition when she offered to mediate between China and Australia. Only an apologist for China would do that. NZ and certainly PNG are at risk of becoming Chinese client states, despite their geography.

As for Mr. Opinion's concerns with Chinese living in Australia, at least they are easily identifiable and observable, and they will soon be banned by the CCP from coming here. Chinese students will be banned by the Xi regime, too, to keep the money out of Australia.

ttbn,

You're wrong about China stopping people coming to our unis. look at this I got off the news web the other day:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/daniel-andrews-slammed-over-plan-to-let-international-students-enter/ar-BB1cLI5H

Our unis are now also migrant processing centres for the Chinese and are the back door to Australia for China in flooding Australia with its nationals.

"Here's your degree."
"Ah so. Thank you."
"And here's your permanent residency visa."
"Ah so. Thank you."

Instead of going back to China they use their Australian degree to get a job in Australia which then can be used to get a permanent residency visa.

And that's how it works. That's why I say that our unis are also acting as migrant processing centres as well as their traditional role of higher education.

I will make the following prediction. All those things I have proposed will never ever see the light of day in any of our parliaments, given our pollies have sold their souls, for a few pieces of corporate silver?

And will spend for the corporate world the stock market and the coal industry here before they do anything to reverse the slide away from fairness equity and the united egalitarian society we once were!

Discord has its foundations in economic outcomes! And the policies that unquestionably quite deliberately created them!

The fact that some of the players were shocked that they were shocked? Tells us, one or two of them still have a Christian conscience?

And maybe able to be persuaded at last to remove the ideological blinkers? And just be guided by the evidence and the merit of the argument?

The folk that stormed the capital were right-wing fascists and sent there by the evocations of a White Supremacist, who reportedly sleeps with a copy of Mien Kampf on his nightstand?

What does that tell us about the folk, who hang on his every word and have now been thrown under the bus by them?
Alan B.

New Zealand launders Chinese products and sends them over to Australia, importing them from China and repacking them and putting a NZ name and contact details on the packaging with, sometimes, a tiny 'Made in China' line beneath. Tip: buy only Birdseye (Australian) frozen vegetables.

Meanwhile, in China, the international team investigating the virus from WuHan will be quarantined for 14 days, then have a further mere 14 days to 'investigate' after China has had the best part of 12 months to cover up.

On trade, since Xi's tantrum, Australian exports have dropped by only 4%, and exports to other countries have actually increased. China is paying more for inferior coal from other sources - and experiencing ongoing blackouts. India has increased its coal imports from Australia. And, China's steel industry, and therefore construction, is suffering from lack of Australian coking coal.

F… China.

Mr. Opinion,

I said China will stop students from coming here, not Australian politicians bullied by greedy University immigration centres.

Mr Opinionated and ttbn

Just letting you know that your puerile name-calling and patronising bullying does not intimidate me. I have the same right as you do to voice an opinion on this forum and will continue to do so.

I am not pro-Chinese. I am pro-truth and fairness. I read from a wide range of independent sources which gives me a world view that myopic and parochial minds like yours will never comprehend. Well, you possibly could, if you actually tried. But so far your minds remain firmly closed.

China is not our enemy. Other nations are perfectly entitled to install socialist or communist governments. It doesn’t make them a threat. Your mindless regurgitating of the tired old Yellow Peril and Reds under the Beds propaganda is sad and pathetic.

I will happily provide supporting evidence for any statement I make. That is if you ever do start to make an attempt at coherent rebuttal of what I’ve written. And so far that hasn’t happened. It seems as though you're incapable of conducting respectful and intellectually-robust debate. All you’ve done so far in response to my posts is denigrate me personally and repeat nationalistic and racist cliches which will never stand up to intelligent scrutiny.

I will engage with your arguments, if I ever see any! But I will also call out your ignorance and bullying for what it is. Get used to it, boys!

Dear Moped

I have it on good authority "Shanghai Serpent" wishes to be referred to as Beijing Bronwyn.

Regarding faux-leftists anti-American comradely siding with China - Renminbi Rules OK!?

To clarify.

Those who are against Australia's best ally, the US, may claim a principled attitude to China.

But so often their attitude correlates with money, favours or special friends from China.

plantagenet,

You'll need to send a request to Beijing if you want to change Bronwyn's codename from the Shanghai Serpent especially given that Foxy is the Beijing Butterfly otherwise it might become a bit confusing having two Beijing something or others in the system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OPy-9eGI0k

Mopi, Indi

Here's a little something for Bronny, "The East Is Red" starring Mao http://youtu.be/GndAiU2qoDI?t=42

Enjoy

I commend the article.

With one exception: spineless Keating was wrong from the start.

Australia must remain an independent continent. We should not be forced, as we now do, to select America as the lesser of two evils, but instead have our own nuclear and other non-conventional weapons to defend ourselves. We must also urgently restore our oil production, refineries and manufacture our own goods. We must obviously also stop the iron-ore supply that aids the enemy's war machine.

In 1950 when Tibet cried bitterly for help before the impending Chinese invasion, America blocked its ears. What gives that they will not treat Australia similarly?

Unlike America, we should listen to the cries of Asian countries oppressed by China as well as the cries of the oppressed Chinese people themselves. True, we cannot do as much as America (had they wanted) in defending them militarily, but at least we should welcome all genuine Asian refugees to be with us and hold this fort together. In doing this, much scrutiny is obviously needed to ensure the genuineness of these refugees, identify and capture CCP agents like Bronwyn among them, then confiscate their assets and hold them hostage pending prisoner-swap arrangements.

Yuyutsu wrote: "Australia must remain an independent continent."

What's geology got to do with it?

Yuyutsu wants us to ignore 40 years of Asianization aka Australian Multiculturalism that took place during the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) in Australian history.

We cannot turn back the clock and Australians have to accept that they are now classified as Asians.

Australia's politicians, bureaucrats and business people wanted to integrate Australia into Asia. This process has been successful and Australia now mirrors the greater Asian continent running from the eastern Mediterranean to the Pacific and from the Arctic to the Indian Ocean.

In fact the Chinese themselves see Australia as part of Asia. And I believe they also see Australia as a prospective member of a great Chinese empire to be wrought out of globalism and Chinese territorial expansionism and an increasing Chinese diaspora throughout the world.

The numerous disparate ethnic and linguistic groups of today's Australia need to recognise that they are both Australian and Asian.

Australia is basically a large version of Singapore.

Dear Mr. Opinion,

Singapore? You must be joking!

Singapore is a police-state and practically without political opposition - we, the people of this continent of all colours and cultures, are 1000 times luckier!

We are free people here, young and free or old and free, relatively free of course, definitely relative to Asia but also relative to America. Sure there is quite a room for improvement, but we will never have our freedom improved under Chinese or even under American rule.

Yuyutsu,

You just said Australia is a place of many colours and cultures.

Exactly! Bingo! That's what I meant when I said Australia is a large version of Singapore.

I see the same cosmopolitan mix in Australia that I see in Singapore.

Which shows that we have become Asian.

Yuyutsu,

I just found this news item on MSN News:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/aust-post-to-commemorate-year-of-the-ox/ar-BB1cS8sB

It's one more example of how Australia is now an Asian nation and of how its peoples mirror greater Asia.

You need to accept the reality that you Australians are now Asian.

Especially a Buddhist Chinese from Taiwan like yourself.

Dear Mr. Opinion,

I agree with you that that's what you meant.

But how shallow!

Just like in Singapore, people here have two eyes, two feet, two hands, two ears and one nose. We also share the ocean... and the virus.

We share these and much much more with England too - are we therefore a version of England?

Yuyutsu,

We could claim to be British up to the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) but after 40 years of Asianization aka Australian Multiculturalism we can no longer do that.

Australians need to embrace their Asianess.

Dear Mr. Opinion,

I used "English" merely as an example to demonstrate your flawed logic, to indicate what nonsense one could arrive at by picking at just one arbitrary lesser characteristic (in your case it was multiculturalism): we also share that much with monkeys - perhaps going by the number of bananas we eat in Australia we could say that Australia is a version of the monkey kingdom?

Won't you agree that Australians need to embrace their monkeyness?

<< ... CCP agents like Bronwyn ... >>

I'll give you 24 hours to retract that statement, Yuyutsu, before I recommend your post for deletion.

Anyone believing that stopping our coal & iron ore exports to China will "hurt" them is kidding themselves. For well over 20 years, much of that exported has been placed on the bottoms of their harbours, rivers & estuaries in wait for such announcement. Likewise believing what the CCP reports about such shortages "causing hardship for its comrades" should be taken as more propaganda. Their scientists have developed techniques to recover and remove the saline contaminants and reclaim the coal & iron ore for later use. The high grade of our iron ore can be supplemented from their new suppliers of lower grade ores from South America & Africa.

Postcard picture of stacks of Aussies at Sydney Town Hall.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-20/chinese-death-threats-at-hong-kong-uts-students-lennon-wall/11430440

All bow to Xi! All bow to Xi!