"Sections 92 and 117 of the constitution guarantee free movement of people and trade between the states."

We now know that this is not true. Piddling state premiers have closed borders, and the equally piddling prime minister has done nothing about it. Constitutional 'guarantees' in Australia are as useful as the warranty on a Chinese watch.

Who would have thought that we would ever see anyone writing that Australian police "have attacked people"? But that's what they now do, the thugs even manacling a little woman in her own home.

However, there has been no sign of the ADF manhandling or touching members of the public. And criticism of a standing army is absolute idiocy.

> In Blackstone’s 1768 Commentaries on the Laws of England, Henry St. George Tucker wrote:
So not written by Sir William Blackstone, but by an American revolutionary seeking credibility by association!

>“Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and
>bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not >already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.”
And this has subsequently been disproved by many Commonwealth countries.

> Sections 92 and 117 of the constitution guarantee free movement of people and trade between the states.
Not exactly. Section 92 guarantees free trade between the states, and this has been maintained throughout the pandemic. Section 117 ensures residents of other states have the same rights under the law as the state's own residents, but does not actually prevent closure of the borders.

> And the only reason it is able to occur is because the ADF is providing assistance.
We saw what happened in Victoria where things were left to private contractors instead. I for one am glad the ADF is now doing the job.

The ADF could, if needed, be immediately redeployed to a national defence role. But if you think that would have any relation to the worsening situation with China, you seriously misunderstand that situation.

You're quite right David. Unfortunately with the exception of the genuine asylum seekers here the living population largely see no danger.
As Yuri Bezmenov warned they only realise when they feel the boot crushing their throat.

Do some people actually think a decease can be made to take notice of the Constitution ?

Our military are beyond reproach and have served us and freedom, with rare distinction overall! Won't allow a control freak to badmouth them without a reply. GPYFH in, David This is a topic we the people and I will not allow you to politicise!

We are not the few bad apples that every culture/society have. I mean should we all be judged by the actions of a white supremacist/nutter with a gun, armed with a semiautomatic, murdering at will one day in Christchurch or earlier, in Hobart?
Alan B.

Don’t worry about threats from a ‘standing army’ interested in gender bending and recruiting girls; we have a booming police state in Victoria. And, the polls would have us believe that 85% of Victorians support this police state, where freedoms have been ground into the dirt without public debate or parliamentary scrutiny.

The Andrew’s government has taken control of every aspect of Victorian’s lives, changing them hour by hour, at a the whim of politicians and bureaucrats. The politicised police force has granted immunity to BLM activists, but has arrested and kicked down the doors of people who do not think the same way the government does.

Now, there is the Covid-19 Omnibus (Emergency Measures) and Other Acts Amendment Bill, which has already passed the lower house.

This ‘thing’ is completely odious and draconian, granting powers - including arrest - to non-police personnel. If this Bill comes into effect, it is all over for Victoria. The best that can be hoped for is the entertainment afforded by the sight on TV of untrained people getting the crap belted out of them as they attempt to detain people who don’t want to be detained. It often takes half a dozen trained police officers to subdue one uncooperative person.

Re trade between the states;
That clause is in the constitution because the states had customs charges
on goods between the states which some politicians wanted to retain.

One of Leyno's subtexts looks USA inspired:

See http://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24671

“A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty,”

Yes Leyno DOES mention american founding father aversion to standing Army (more at http://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24671 ).

However in the US now (NOT HERE) standing army aversion is often conflated with state or local Militia rights to bear arms to make them more powerful than a US Federal Standing Army.

If the average Citizen had more sense in the first place Armies wouldn't be needed !
Our society has now so far degenerated that we'll need the Army to assist the Police !
Any riots, raging parties etc, soldiers should automatically become Police deputies !

"The proposed legislation effectively consolidates Victoria as a police state where informers and collaborators will assist the authorities in tracing and incarcerating their fellow citizens without warrants, on the basis of prospective conduct." (Augusto Zimmermann). Any person could be detained for almost anything if this Bill is passed. The development is seen as the "consolidation of an oppressive, authoritarian regime", which "seeks to enlist the population as informers and arms of the state in rounding up others who are guilty of no offence". Just like the old Communist 'Iron Curtain' regimes and the current Chinese one.

When a small noncompliant cohort of anarchists, are as Asmptomaic super spreaders, spreading a highly infectious killer disease as far and wide as possible? Decent law-abiding folk need to dob these mongrels in! No, ifs, buts or maybes.

I mean, it could be your mum and dad or grandma or grandad, sister brother, cousins or your closest friends on their mindless hit list. You ok with that tbn?

This virus needs warm-blooded hosts to live and spread. Albeit it can survive up to 7 days on some surfaces? And the reason why masks and good hand hygiene are so efective in stopping as much as 80% of the transmission

If that is denied that/them, i.e., warm-blooded hosts, for a full 14 days until it is no longer contagious. The spread stops! And with that spread nipped permenently in the bud! The economy and border can fully reopen.

It is not the military or the polce or the politicians at fault here! Just the willfully blind, willfully disobdient who are destroying the economy and our lifestyles/freedom!

Skilfully aided and abbetted by those who willfully spread false information and point the finger at everyone else, save the real culprits, ttbn!

Me I'd setup testing stations at the end of every steet in every hot spot. With those testing positive, incarcerated behind razor wire to guarantee compliance. Until tests prove they're, none of them, no longer contagious!

It's not the fault of the police, the army, the politicians or the health workers, some of who have paid the ulimate price for their dedicaion to duty! But the nutters and the beligerant, bellicose, right wing conspiracy theorists, who have encouraged noncompliance, would need to carry the can on this one! Left to me, the latter would face trial for teason and a firing squad!
Alan B.

right wing conspiracy theorists,
Alan B,
You're terribly wrong on this one, it's the Leftists who are opposing discipline & aren't complying !

To paraphrase Martin Niemoller: first they did it to the Victorians, and we did nothing because we weren't Victorians.

If the Andrews government gets away with what it is doing to democracy and, more importantly, what it wants to do to democracy with this new legislation, how long will it be before other State governments, and the Federal government, start doing the same things to democracy for whatever reason they choose!

In the UK, a Socialist member of the House of Lords has already said that, now people have "accepted" the loss of certain freedoms in the name of stopping the China virus, it is time to apply the same methods - assaulting democracy - to bring people into line on climate change.

>Our military are beyond reproach

This is a dangerous thing to say, NO one is beyond either reproach or criticism.

One example here

https://www.theage.com.au/national/special-forces-chief-acknowledges-war-crimes-blames-poor-moral-leadership-20200628-p556z6.html

That the ADF are being deployed on Australia soil against Australians is beyond the pal and horrific ! They should be ashamed of themselves.

Other then the off the cuff mark about China I agre with David, again,

...... ADF are being deployed on Australia soil against Australians is beyond the pal and horrific !
Valley guy,
It is beyond the pal and horrific that some Australians' mentality & behaviour requires engaging the ADF !

David Leyonhjelm claims that standing armies have been around since the Roman era.

I thought standing armies did not come until a lot later like around the 18th century, which is 1300 years after the Roman era.

Is David Leyonhjelm trying to pull the wool over our eyes here?

For months, Melbourne has been experiencing an unprecedented mental health crisis. The Lifeline service has received more calls per day than it has in its entire history. The government's draconian lockdown laws, fines, travel restrictions and curfews are responsible. Black-clad police pounce on anyone who stops walking or sits down, fines them $1650, or arrests them. Stopping to talk to someone is regarded as a "gathering".

As one commentator wrote, "Life in this city (Melbourne) has become a slow suicide.

Name just one shock jock who leans to the left!? Just one! Name just one of these folk who hasn't been complaining loudly and long, broken record style, about the loss of freedom, the shutting down of our borders/the economy!? Just one!

Those with a very severe case of Sergeant Schulz's syndrome may believe otherwise?

This virus kills folk, leaves others seriously sick, others with health that's compromised indefinitely/lifespans seriously shortened.

Can be spread by droplets from coughs and sneezes. A sneeze leaves the nostrils at around 104 MPH. Can travel thirty plus feet!

It can also be spread by aerosols from your breath! Areosols that that're rarely seen, save on a cold winter morning, when the steam from your breath,i.e., aerosol is visible to all and sundry/with the naked eye. Can be seen as a plume trail behind runners for ten plus feet.

Masks can restrict most of this. Those with the best nose and mouth seal, the best performing. They are the reusable respirators. Yes, they are expensive, 100 bucks or so, but I'll guarantee, still in use doing sterling service, when others have used 200 bucks worth of less effective disposables!

Survives on some surfaces for as many as seven days. You can be infectious up to three days before the onset of symptoms! Or never ever experience symptoms, i.e., Asymptomatic! As an Asymptomatic carrier, super spread this highly contagious virus, far and wide!

The good news is, After two weeks or therabouts, you are no longer contagious, the reason why lockdowns, quarantine in isolstion, work as well as they do, particularly as in Tiawian, supported by very broad scale testing/very efficient broad-scale contact tracing!

Places like the USA, Getting their opposite outcomes, via quite gross (flat earth) stupidity and redneck noncompliance! It needs warmblood hosts to survive beyond seven days! Humans, cats and bats.

Bats are nocturnal as are cats. The resaon why you'd want a dawn to dark curfew as much as possible. Your pets/feline friends, kept on the premises!
Alan B.

Hmmm, Mr Opinion who in his own opinion is the most educated person
in Australia has just shown us his ignorance.
Indeed the Romans had standing armies, the most famous one being on the Rhine.
At particular times there were armies on the Danube to keep the Huns at bay.

The soldier was recruited for five years and when demobbed he could be
given a grant of land in the Empire.

Name just one shock jock who leans to the left!?
Alan B,
The whole of the Left !

Someone further back on here suggested that the recent bill going
through the Victorian parliament will set a precedent for similar
legislation in relation to Global Warming.
So, if you drive your car more than say 10 km to work instead of
getting public transport you could be arrested and confined at work
or in barracks as it is thought that you might continue driving your
car more than the prescribed kms.

You think I am joking, well someone did suggest that !
They were a Melbourne councilor or similar politician.
There have been other suggestions on that line. Electricity usage could be one.

But Individual, there are no left leaning shock jocks,
those that would be all work for their ABC !

Bazz,

Being one of the most educated people in the country does not mean that I do not make mistakes or that I do not have total knowledge.

I thought the term standing army was a modern concept referring to the maintenance of an army irrespective of whether or not a country was at war.

By my reckoning the Roman legions were maintained because Rome was constantly at war, either putting down rebellions, annexing more territory, or defending the Republic and Empire.

So what's your background if you're so FN smart? Nothing worthwhile talking about I assume.

Misopinionated,

It was common practice with the Romans, the Spartans, and maybe the Chinese and Tsarist Russians - and certainly the British long afterwards (viz. 'Danny Boy') - for soldiers to be recruited, even conscripted, for twenty-odd years, on the promise of being given land (and slaves or serfs) of their own out on the frontiers, where they would be expected to answer the call to arms if ever their part of the frontier was threatened.

Pity you didn't study history :(

Joe

FOULmouth,

I told you how many time that I have an MA in history?

You are as ignorant as Bazz. Neither of you can grasp the key issue in the definition of what makes a standing army.

You think all armies are standing armies because they are armies.

This is what I get when discussing something with people who couldn't even get into history degree program let even get through it.

Why do I waste my million dollar brain talking to you one dollar brains?

Misop,

I suppose they never taught military history at your pre-school. Mercenary armies have been quite common throughout history and, by definition, they are armies for hire, perhaps fluid in terms of membership but nevertheless, standing armies. Most of Bonnie Prince Charlie's army at Culloden were mercenaries, Poles, French, Irish.

In Russia, the Cossacks were usually frontier soldiers for life, trash of all sorts but nevertheless an army posted on the frontier for life, every so often, when the Tsar had a mind, they would be pushed out into 'hostile' territory, to seize it and parcel it out amongst their fellow Cossacks.

Actually, I would have thought that any empire, in its expansionist and holding phases, would have standing armies. Perhaps even the Assyrian and Babylonian armies ? Chengiz Khan's Mongol armies ? Frederick 'the Great''s armies ? Napoleon's ?

Back to the books, my boy :)

Joe

FOULmouth,

What are you trying to demonstrate: that you don't need a degree in history to tell someone that you know something about history.

Who cares!

And stop living in your make-believe world!

Hmmm, I think I have had enough of the opinionated BSA.
Most here do not have to skite about their education or lack of it.
Individual, Britain and other parts of Europe have large
Roman military establishments surrounded by rock walls that were there
for the occupation and some are still there swallowed up by major towns,
such as Londinium that developed around them.
The plans are well known and published with the Generals quarters in
the centre at a cross roads.

I have never been to Londinium but I have visited Vindobona several times.
The Romans wouldn't recognise the place now, they'd think they're in Somalia !

I liked the first half of David Leyonhjelm's article- the explanation of standing armies, professional armies, the use of armies for policing, the value of civilian forces, etc.

The Roman Legions as I understand were generally kept out of Rome itself- with the exception of the Praetorian Guard ;) during the later empire period.

Victoria apparently now justifies repressive force due to their early mismanagement of the situation- I'm unsure if this is due to incompetence or engineered subversion.

Interestingly one poster invoked Yuri Bezmenov- there's something understated here perhaps- my understanding of Bezmenov is that being a defector from Soviet Russia he warns against Communist Subversive Tactics- not that I disagree that the Victorian Government is Communist- but it doesn't follow that the Australian Army is Communist. Interesting.

http://spectator.org/four-stages-of-marxist-takeover-the-accuracy-of-yuri-bezmenov/

There are many interesting comments posted on this thread.

Bazz,

You said above: "Hmmm, I think I have had enough of the opinionated BSA. Most here do not have to skite about their education or lack of it."

That's because you are what I call a pseudo-intellectual.

I get it! You're unhappy because you wanted to really be a historian or archaeologist or sociologist or anthropologist or philosopher, etc. but it never happened.

You're not so you just pretend you are. I get it!

Yes Canum the Roman armies were kept out of central Italy after
their experience with Caesar.
He reinforced that by "Crossing the Rubicon" and entering Rome.
Still I do not think that is so much a problem these days

Canem Malum,

Yes CM you should pay attention to Bazz our resident pretend historian and classicist - he's full of it.