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The Forum > Article Comments > The green road to blackouts > Comments

The green road to blackouts : Comments

By Viv Forbes, published 2/9/2020

California leads the way to electricity blackouts, closely followed by South Australia. They both created this problem by taxing, banning, delaying or demolishing reliable coal, nuclear, gas or hydro generators.

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Solar IS nuclear.
Posted by ateday, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 9:38:47 AM
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I want to hear about cheap, reliable thorium power from Alan B again!
Posted by JBowyer, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 10:00:56 AM
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It's four years since we had a blackout caused by renewables in South Australia. There is surely a time limit on the shock/horror of a single incident!

The problem with energy in Australia is that both parties have virtually the same stupid policies. Until that obvious and only cause is fixed at the ballot box by voters refusing to vote for them, it is pointless even raising the subject.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 10:06:54 AM
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Victoria had 200,000 blacked out just last week due to lack of generating capacity. Isn't that enough?

Can you imagine the fun of being locked down in a blacked out high rise apartment? Aint life grand in a green/left blob controlled state.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 11:02:49 AM
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Yup And made us a sitting duck waiting to be plucked and over reliant on a hostile communist regime! We need to understand that coal and gas have had their day and are finite and for the most part, foreign owned?
By debt-laden, tax-avoiding, price-gouging, profit-repatriating Multinationals? And we need to stop allowing them to call the tune, and just adopt nuclear power, cooperative capitalism and genuine tax reform!

If we develop MStR technology, we can very safely use the most energy dense material in the world, i.e., thorium! And or nuclear waste that other folks pay us annual billions to store.

And we would, but only after we spend most of th 98-95% unspent fuel this product still retains! And in the proccess have someone else pay for all the R+D, the reactors and the unspent fuel. Unspent fuel they pay us handsomely to take off the hands! And unspent fuel that'll safely power this nation 24/7 for thousands of years! Ditto thorium which is so abundant, we can never ever run out of it!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 2 September 2020 1:07:33 PM
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The SA big battery will be expanded to 194 Mwh not a lot when the state appears to use about 10,000 Mwh on a hot day. In 2019 SA got 47% of the electricity generated within the state from the dwindling Cooper and Otway gas fields. Nonetheless renewable enthusiasts say they will eliminate gas by 2030 or 2040 whichever.

A recent study by MIT found that batteries could at best cover 16% of the heatwave peaking power task. Even gas baseload considered too expensive may get a revival if some big coal plants are closed. That's Liddell NSW by 2023 and probably Yallourn Vic by 2030. If the lights are to be kept on and nukes aren't allowed it will be gas, much it shipped from WA.
Posted by Taswegian, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 1:30:31 PM
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The cowards in the Liberal Party know the Paris agreement is a total fraud, they know gw is crap, they know renewables are unreliable and have pushed power prices through the roof. They know the Turnbullites were frauds. The fact that Trump has shown the world how to have reliable cheap energy should enpower them to have an ounce of courage and rip up the Paris agreement. Don't hold your breath while China and others build numerous coal fire plants while laughing while they collect our cheap coal and send us their overpriced solar panels.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 2:18:28 PM
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Hurrah, someone else raising these points.
One US study I read looked at the maintenance.
With 100% renewable using wind and solar, the US would need teams of
workers changing 100,000 solar panels a day based on the Mean Time Between Faults.
So the US is 10 times bigger than Aus, so we would need to change only 10,000 a day !
The same engineering study pointed out that the multiplication factor
to provide 100% power is approaching 12 times. ie you have to provide
12 times the number of wid turbines and 12 times the number of solar
panels spread over 12 times the number of sites to supply with 100%
reliability the maximum demand on the grid. The 12 times figure is
disputed, but four times would be the lowest.

Then batteries, arrgghhh, assume three sequential calm overcast days.
Then you need extra wind and solar to generate 4 to 12 times the
generation capacity times 3+1 to recharge the batteries in one day
with four days supply, because the next day might be still and overcast.
err, but what if there were 4 days still & overcast ?
These are just thought studies but no one has pointed out where they
are wrong. I know it causes tension but I understand that as it is
like swearing in church, it is sacrilege.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 2:33:02 PM
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In my area, Greens are opposed to a new Silica Mine, a Mine that's trying to obtain the material to make Solar panels !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 4:12:12 PM
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Somebody needs to give these folks their allegorical forty pieces of silver and congratulate them on a fine job.

The sun is nuclear! Poly want a cracker. We all knew that and about the mountains of toxic waste we create via the manufacture of solar voltaic panels.

Panels that we need to replace every thirty or so years. And given the sun does not shine at night, replace the batteries every ten years. Landfill?

Adding batteries makes solar voltaic energy uneconomic for manufacture!

But then, the greens don't want a manufacturing sector, dams and heavy industry, let alone, clean, safe, cheap nuclear energy.

Just keep repeating their BS writ large as they attempt to shut us down? Well, they do need to earn their forty pieces of allegorical silver?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 2 September 2020 4:45:19 PM
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Alan B,
We should create a National Service branch for Greens & Leftists wherein they can spend time in the outback & prove that they can practise & survive on what they preach !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 5:22:36 PM
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Maybe we should simply name these outages "Greenouts after the Fwits that caused them.
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 4 September 2020 9:23:55 AM
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the latest statement by the Mayor of LA

'Its almost 3pm, time to “Time to turn off major appliances, set the thermostat to 78 degrees (or use a fan instead), turn off excess lights and unplug any appliances you’re not using. We need every Californian to help conserve energy. Please do your part.”

The state that leads the way in renewables. What a totally dumbed down mob we have become. At least China gets to laugh some more as they build their hundreds of coal fired power station. Wake up Scott Morrison!
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 2:30:16 PM
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Trump jr response to Mayors admission of failure

Hard to believe this tweet is real from the Mayor of LA. This is what the democrats will do to this country... #Blackouts
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 2:31:53 PM
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Dear runner,

This is the first time in 19 years that California has had rolling blackouts due to capacity issues. It is experiencing record temperatures at the moment. Any correlation forming in that addled brain of yours yet?
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 5:44:20 PM
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Normal engineering practise is to have enough generating capacity to
cope with the worse conditions.
Electricity is not like many other fields where you design for say 97%
reliability. With electricity supply you design for 99.9% and do not
really believe you will ever see that .1%.
Hot days would never be an excuse. They have well known frequency and
the highest temperatures which occurred in the 19th century are well
recorded. In any case air conditioning equipment has become a lot more
efficient.
No, you can't blame the environment, it is all due to poor design.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 10:00:16 PM
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Rolling blackouts are a sign of huge incompetence and a forewarning of the consequences of labor's climate policies in Victoria and South Australia.

In California, power generators have warned the state government of the consequences of closing its fossil fuel generators, and yet the Fwit Democrats are still proposing to close the nuclear power plant just as the moron Dan Andrews closed Hazelwood by tripling the taxes on the coal it was mining.

But I am sure that they will find someone else to blame.
Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 4:04:52 AM
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A further complication to the Victorian energy system is that they are
counting on the output of domestic solar installations which has reached
a significant level and is still increasing.
If I take my panels as an example, in summer at 9am the o/p is 700 watts.
At local midday 12-30 it is 1000 watts, at 2pm it is 800 watts, at
5 pm it is 200 watts and at 7pm it is 6 watts.
You can imagine the winter figures, especially in gloomy Melbourne.
So as you can see just at the time you need it, it is going down hill.
By banking on domestic installations you are on a loosing streak.
Of course tracking would improve matters no end, but how many tracking
installations have you seen ?
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 4:04:39 PM
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Any correlation forming in that addled brain of yours yet?

yes Steelie only very dumb dishonest Governments pretend renewables are up to the job.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 4:20:41 PM
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