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The Forum > Article Comments > Common sense: quarantine is for sick people > Comments

Common sense: quarantine is for sick people : Comments

By David Pellowe, published 6/8/2020

At no stage did we ever think lock down was a sustainable measure. We were told we only had to flatten the curve.

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Victoria, with the most draconian efforts in making people's lives a misery, has proved that lockdowns are a load of old bollocks, inflicted because politicians and public servants pretending to be doctors cannot tell their own arses from their elbows. Lockdowns have turned out to be worse than the complaint for the majority of people. We can't be sure that the economy will ever recover from the actions of idiotic, power-crazed politicians who keep jabbering that we 'have to listen to the experts', when the experts are the real problem. They continue to get their big bucks, while their 'expertise' is impoverishing the country and workers.

After the next election, there should not be one currently serving politician left in office - particularly the arch-idiot Prime Minister. But Australians have been surrendering their rights and lives to politicians and bureaucrats for so long now that they will keep rewarding the morons, and Australian politicians will continue to be a bigger threat to us than the virus and its source, the Chinese, will ever be.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 6 August 2020 9:56:36 AM
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The author makes quite a few valid observations. Perhaps as well as publicising the number of deaths due to the virus, the authorities should also be publicising the number of deaths due to suicide. I suggest that we are ignoring the latter which comprise a majority of younger ones while we concentrate on reducing the former which comprise mainly older people. Unfortunately I belong to the former.
David
Posted by VK3AUU, Thursday, 6 August 2020 10:01:32 AM
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https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=~SWE

No lockdown, quarantine, or isolation.
Posted by Luciferase, Thursday, 6 August 2020 10:18:50 AM
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Yeah David, the draconian lockdowns have and will be shown to be the biggest failure in our history. I suspect very strongly that far more deaths are going to result from this madness. There are to many 'experts' enjoying this and we have been taken for tragic ride. Thanks for taking the time for writing something other than the panic porn that has led to millions giving up basic rights and needs due to fear mongers. Our State Premiers and Health bureaucrats have been among the worse.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 August 2020 11:05:56 AM
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So this is where all the ratbags hang out ?

Get a grip. Victoria is suffering around seven hundred new cases of this virus each day. Of course, that is pretty small beer, compared to the US's sixty thousand each day, and it's certainly more manageable, given strong efforts to trace and track compared to the US's 'bugger it' approach (except for the valiant efforts of Fauci and Birx), but there are still people dying from this virus in Victoria every day, thanks to idiots flouting the lockdown - again, nothing like the 1100-1200 each day in the US, but still 12-15 loved ones.

So of course, aim for maximum suppression. I get the impression that posters here wouldn't give a toss if the virus was free-ranging, 'let it rip', let it infect as many as possible because then we can move towards herd immunity. 'We're safe in our bunkers'. And anyway, any lockdowns affect the economy.

As if - dumb-arses - 'letting it rip' won't affect the economy - but in an unplanned, more chaotic way ? ? How old are some of you blokes - mentally, I mean ? Six ? Eight ? Half-wits always over-estimate the benefits of their preferred option, and under-estimate its costs or deny them entirely. Dumb-arse bank robbers do that all the time. Young children have stupid accidents because of that way of wishful thinking.

No, we're in for a long haul. No lockdown would mean a rampant epidemic until an effective vaccine is found, if ever. No doubt all you blokes are safely locked away from the world in your bunkers, stocked up with just enough toilet paper and baked beans (a deadly combination) for a few years. See you when this is over - sooner if we have an effective lockdown. Don't worry, you'll have something else to whinge about by then.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 6 August 2020 11:40:35 AM
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Already a rise in cases needing Intensive Care Units (ICU) beds.

Already increased number of Doctors/Nurses/Carers getting COVID.

By late September saturation of ICU beds with COVID and all other disease/accident cases:

- All looked after by the declining number of Doctors/Nurses/Carers.

- Someone will need to make the decisions on which 60+ year old patients SHOULD DIE TO KEEP ICU BEDS AVAILABLE FOR NON-COVID CASES.
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 6 August 2020 11:41:23 AM
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I think the crux of the matter is the medical advice.
For instance, the advice on that malaria vaccine or drug. Hexachlorine ?
We have scientists from very eminent medical institutions giving
absolutely contrary statements.
One says that given to elderly patients in the first week gives
a large decrease in the death rate.
Another says that trials have shown no effect at all.
They cannot be both right.
So what does a politician do ?
He can take the no loose decision and insist that the drug be used.
A reasonable "gamble" as the drug is a safe and accepted treatment.
He will be berated by the local medical "experts" for unethical practice.
That whole issue got confused by anti Trump syndrome when Trump
announced he was taking the drug. Therefore is must be a bad decision.

That we have such a fundamental contradictory medical opinion means
that the medical profession is not as clever as they want us to believe.
A second opinion is the usual suggestion, but that did not work.
The inability of the medial profession to solve this dilemma very
quickly shows a lack of professional procedures.
It leaves the rest of us to go by the seat of our pants.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 6 August 2020 11:56:34 AM
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There is rarely mention that out of the tens of thousands of business's ruined and possibly a million plus unemployed that not one public servant has lost a cent. I suppose many can pounce on the all the cheap sales which will be occurring in the near future. You would think that if we were all in this together that public servant wages and spending would be cut by at least 20%. Oh well all those HR Departments need the diversity staff, the thousands stopping progress through green, red and rainbow tape, the education bureaucrats working out how to confuse kids about their sexuality. And lets not forget the billion plus a year for the abc to push their marxist division and cancel culture. The 'smart' country? Oh well as long as we remained locked up and wear a mask all will be ok.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 August 2020 12:24:58 PM
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Hi Bazz,

President Trump tried hexachloroquine and he didn't get the virus. So that proves it's effective.

I don't know where to get hexachloroquine, but I've tried something else, to ward off the virus: at every full moon, I go out and howl at it. Four months now, and I HAVEN'T CAUGHT THE VIRUS ! So it works !

So what do we need these jumped-up 'doctors' and 'science' for ? All everybody has to do is go out in the street when there's a full moon and howl at it. Not for long, maybe half an hour. Around midnight would be the best time, when the moon is fullest. Ignore the dogs, and the pesky neighbours.

And when the police come, tell them it's your individual sovereign right to howl at the moon. They'll know what to do.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 6 August 2020 12:28:52 PM
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https://www.facebook.com/davidlimbrickldp/photos/a.1578455645785625/2461528610811653/
Posted by Luciferase, Thursday, 6 August 2020 12:34:42 PM
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runner,

It would have be interesting to know what the 'expert' advice would have been had the 'experts' had their incomes slashed. But,they are being treated as some sort of angels even though most of their advice and predictions have turned out to be crap.

The fact that politicians have not shown solidarity with the general population and made sacrifices should never be forgotten, either.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 6 August 2020 12:47:56 PM
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Recent broad scale testing has revealed that the real number of Italians that were infected, was six times greater than the original estimate!

That's six times David! And as Asymptomatic carriers spreading this killer virus, far and wide!

People like David say, healthy people shouldn't be locked up!

I get that what he knows about infectious disease, could be written on the back of a postage stamp, using a crowbar for a pen.

Asymptomatic people need to be locked up so they don't get to kill other folks! Understand yet, genius?

Me? I've have locked the whole place down tighter than a fish's annus phincter, and that's so tight it's waterproof. I'd have imposed the dawn to dust curfew immediately and locked and bolted all the borders, international, state and shire!

And policed the curfew with a routinely tested army, armed with non-lethal bean bag ammo. And right wing agitators like David and a few radio piosonalities would have cooled their heels in prison for sidition and or treason!

Curfew breackers would have had a beanbag round in the belly, as their reward!

Other than that, Jobkeeper and or Jobseeker should have been extended to all workers! So that sick folk could stay at home when sick, rather than be forced to work at whatever and spread their infection far and wide! Just to put food on the table!

And clearly not understood by the ruling class, judging all others by their economic standards! Or compelled by an idiotic idealogical imperitive?

The flatten the curve rationale, was therefore in play because the emphasis was on the economy first and foremost and done as the rationale by folk who knew about as much about HIGHLY infectious diseases as the very ignorant, David?

If the disease is deprived of host carriers it dies! Flattening the curve does not deprive it of hosts!

And the victorian or Italian examples demonstrates just how easily a single carrier can shut down the whole economy!

We should have gone/still go for elimination. more effective and less costly overall!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 6 August 2020 1:12:27 PM
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1. BIGGEST PROBLEM IS NUMBER OF VICTORIAN HOSPITAL STAFF CONTRACTING THE VIRUS

From ABC News, 5th August 2020 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-05/victorias-hospitals-close-to-capacity-emergency-doctor-warns/12526846

"...Dr Sarah Whitelaw said...The biggest problem...was the number of hospital staff contracting the virus.

"We thought at the beginning of the pandemic that our problem was going to be intensive care beds and the number of ventilators that we had ... we've all been blindsided by the fact that our problem is the workforce," Dr Whitelaw told 7.30.

"I think the number of healthcare worker infections is a real concern."

More than 1,000 healthcare workers in Victoria have tested positive for COVID-19 since the pandemic began.

"That is our biggest problem going forward in Victoria over the next couple of weeks and needs an urgent response," she said.

Dr Whitelaw, an emergency physician in Melbourne who sits on the board of the Australian Medical Association in Victoria, said the state's health system was under "huge strain"...."
_________________________________________________________

2. Should we BAN AGED CARE RESIDENTS FROM GOING TO HOSPITAL and just let them die in under-staffed, under-equipped, nursing homes?

Also see http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-05/victorias-hospitals-close-to-capacity-emergency-doctor-warns/12526846
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 6 August 2020 1:30:11 PM
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LM wrote:"President Trump tried hexachloroquine and he didn't get the virus. So that proves it's effective."

A coupla threads back I provided links showing increasing evidence that HCQ plus zinc, given early enough is very effective against the virus. At the time I facetiously recommended that LM not read those studies since it would upset him. Seems he took me at my word.

But the evidence is that it is very effective and the only reason its not being used is that it would require people admitting that Trump was right.

I gather it is still banned in Victoria - showing how little they really care about the lives of the vulnerable.

I remember a time when quite a few people here got all misty-eyed telling us what a wonderful job uncle Dan was doing....you don't hear that so much these days. Can't imagine why.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 6 August 2020 2:12:09 PM
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Hi Mhaze,

Thanks for a good laugh ! 'Somebody' has banned hexachloroquine ? Somebody more powerful than Trump ? Hmmm, must be the Deep State. Or the Chinese. Anybody else.

Yeah, right.

160,000 deaths in the US by the weekend, all just to get Trumpf re-elected. What a mongrel.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 6 August 2020 2:18:27 PM
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'Yeah, right.

160,000 deaths in the US by the weekend, all just to get Trumpf re-elected. What a mongrel.'

yeah Joe your usual bile since contracting TDS. Oh well none so blind!
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 August 2020 2:27:51 PM
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First LM the drug is hydroxychloroquine - good to see you're up on all this.

Second it is banned in Victoria, not by the deep state or whatever else you might want to name. But by that government. I get that you really really want to avoid seeing anything that might point to Trump being right about this, but just because you refuse to look at the evidence doesn't make the evidence go away.

LM, you've demonstrated over the past few months that you really struggle with the statistics around this. And again we see you comparing the raw Victorian numbers to the raw US numbers and drawing idiotic conclusions. But bear in mind that Victoria's population is about 1/70th that of the US. Anyone with a passing understanding os statistics would know you need to make the appropriate adjustments before drawing conclusions - idiotic or otherwise.

What you need to ask is whether the current problems in Australia are Morrison's fault. If the Victorian debacle is his fault, why isn't it being replicated in other states. If its not his fault then it must be a state issue. One or t'other.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 6 August 2020 2:40:34 PM
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I'm sorry David, but I've decided that I'm going to tear shreds off you.

You claim to be a Christian right.
You want to know the thing I hate about Christians.
Christians think they are the be all and end all of righteousness.
Let me tell you something.
You're not.

They say stuff like, if it wasn't for good christian morals the world would delve into absolute chaos in an instant, and that non-christians would all just start doing what is right in their eyes and mayhem and sin would reign. blah-blah-blah

You people are a bunch of idiots living in the stone age.

You don't have to be a Christian to be a good person.
In fact the harder I look I find that you Christians are not at all good people at all.

What we, the sinners whom you believe you're above, the non Christians, have - is something different.

'Live however you want so long as it doesn't harm others'.

I go a bit further in what I now call 'The Ethics Test':
I say 'Everybody has the right to live however they choose so long as it doesn't have a negative and detrimental impact on others'

It actually comes from J.S Mill's 'Harm Principle' which in effect balances one-persons liberty against the harm of another.

If you're going to go around whinging about restricted liberties and harm of others maybe you should familiarise yourself with it.

Christians really don't seem to comprehend this whole 'harm of others' concept.

Everything in your article seems to try to justify a less strict position that would increase the risk of harm to others.

"This virus is here to stay, and it always was."
With your attitude, yes it will be.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 6 August 2020 3:39:24 PM
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[Cont]
"it is not my responsibility if the guy who takes my money at the pizza shop gets the virus from me"

Or course it is.
Because if you have the virus you should be in quarantined, not being down at the pizza shop.

You even stated such: "Quarantining of sick people must be strictly enforced."

What were you thinking when you wrote that?
were you planning on contradicting yourself?

YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS IN PUTTING OTHERS AT RISK OF HARM,
Also
'YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO YOURSELF TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM HARM'

"Everyone else must maintain basic physical distancing, hand hygiene and cough/sneeze etiquette, but otherwise be allowed natural freedoms of assembly, movement and trade/commerce."

No, I don't support that anymore.
They had theirr chance to do the right thing, they are not taking things seriously and they are putting the entire nation at risk.
Sure you can point the finger at government for not getting things exactly right, but you personally are arguing for things that will increase the risk of harm to others like you are God and hold the ultimate decision of life and death yourself.

Who do you think you are?

Ultimately all the people in Victoria need to take a look in the mirror if they want someone to blame.

"For everyone else with a morbidity risk if infected no higher than a bad flu year, it should be life as normal with some sensible precautions."

Maybe you should have a look at some of the stories of people that DIDN'T die, they're not healthy, its not a common flu.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 6 August 2020 3:45:56 PM
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I heard Australian medical "Experts" on ABC (where else do we get to hear experts) that this hexachloroquine was of no use without anyone actually trying it. So far, I've only heard of some Yanks including The Donald taking it & being ridiculed for staying healthy thus far.
I think wherever the massive outbreaks occur has something to do with promises of some virgins coming the distributors' way !
The other scenario could be that it is a Chinese gift to the West & yet another scenario could be that Govts got together to manipulate their debts !
There you are, no shortage of conspiracy theories !
For us up in the tropical North, the best remedy thus far has proven to be keeping the southern distributors out !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 6 August 2020 3:47:31 PM
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'Ultimately all the people in Victoria need to take a look in the mirror if they want someone to blame.''

I would of thought Armchair that the origins of the virus (more than likely Wuhan lab) and those who deliberately allowed/sent the virus around the world should really get the blame. Seems like the plandemic has worked perfectly in turning people against people all around the world, Meanwhile you dish up this garbage. You use the pandemic to push bile on Christians, Joe uses it to push bile in Trump and meanwhile the culprits sit and laugh.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 6 August 2020 4:28:06 PM
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The irony is we're told it's all about caring.
Posted by jamo, Thursday, 6 August 2020 4:37:55 PM
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Aged Care in Aus has been allowed to putter-along for a dog's age 'on the smell of an oily rag' - with a majority of barely trained staff offered only low casual hours, forcing them to take work at a number of homes to make enough for a 'subsistence living'.

A choice had to be made to maintain reasonable budgets - Federal and States':
1. Either to focus on Early Child Education (ex 'Childcare') - and relevant Gov't Allowances, so more families could have at least one, if not two, adult members working to meet today's aspirational living standards;
2. Or, make better (or at least 'reasonable') provision for the Aged.

No contest! Extraordinary outcry for Early Ed, with more highly skilled staff (and salary increases), greater staff to child ratios, better facilities and activities, and greater responsibility to parents to produce 'results' - and ever-higher costs to government.

Why? Well, Asian kids do so much better - so, had to be because of better Early Ed. Nothing to do with more attentive and disciplined parentage, of course.
This, despite studies which urged against 'pushing' kids too early.

So, Aged Care has been left to fall into the abyss - with musical-chair poorly-skilled staffing, high patient to staff ratio, bare basic nutrition, questionable medical oversight in many instances, and minimal engagement, exercise, outings or entertainment for the 'inmates'.
Mind you, some facilities are brilliant - but just not enough.

Well, the wide deficiencies in Aged Care have come home to roost in this pandemic.
And, we should be rightly castigated for permitting this state of affairs to have existed.

Early Education - overblown Child Care - costs spiraling, and wages chasing the tail, and the aged betrayed.

Time for more compassionate budgeting and service provision?

But, pandemic emptying the coffers, and the Me-Myself-I brigade scurrying to scrounge for the crumbs.

Community, empathy, compassion? Some go to great lengths to ensure others don't go hungry, while so many others should bow their heads in shame at their complacency and disregard.

Lock down the selfish, lest they condemn all.
Posted by Saltpetre, Thursday, 6 August 2020 4:42:02 PM
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A.C Joe, Saltpetre. Hear, hear and well said! UNderstand this, morons. The disastrous Italian pandemic was carried to those shores by a single Asymptomatic, i.e., "healthy" Chinese tourist. Consequently, dozens of Italian doctors and nurses died. Had they been suited up as for a highly infectious disease. They would still be with us? And had the patients been treated in hyperbaric chambers, breathing pure oxygen at 3 atmospheres? Many more would have been saved.

We could have squashed this thing flat by a total lockdown from the get go and now be back to near normal with the entire economy humming along!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Thursday, 6 August 2020 5:11:57 PM
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The ability to provide better aged care in the future, along with every other welfare expenditure is compromised by the growing debt we are shackling future generations with.

We've failed our elderly, as happened in Sweden. Without turning this into a crusade for better general aged-care there should have been expenditure on tightening key portals for viral tranfer, a 'moat' as it were. We owed them that.

Apart from procedures and limitations already in place at entry points, one of these factors could be to pay for quarantining staff for periods before they go into live-in situations in homes. With the right conditions there would have been sufficient takers for such arrangements, and still can be.
Posted by Luciferase, Thursday, 6 August 2020 5:18:07 PM
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Individual, there was an expert on epidemics from the New England Institute of Medicine, which is a world famous medical research
organisation, on Sky News a few days ago said that their trials of that
drug was successful.
Even I have heard of them and their well known medical journal.
http://tinyurl.com/y2yhq2am

That is the point I was making, when you get a world famous institute
saying it was successful who do you believe ?
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 6 August 2020 5:24:34 PM
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Whoops wrong button.
Who do you believe, the ABCs resident GP or a world famous medical institute ?
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 6 August 2020 5:26:51 PM
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Bazz,
Is there a graph of COVID-19 cases in Australia that also shows ethnicity ?
Posted by individual, Thursday, 6 August 2020 7:36:58 PM
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Indiv, no idea, someone said aborigines in the NT could be more
susceptible if it got loose in the NT, but no reason why.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 6 August 2020 9:19:04 PM
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