All this nonesence has been debunked, catch up!

Dan

Australia had a Royal Commission into aboriginal deaths in custody and it found that there was no difference between death rates of aboriginal whites, or Asians. However, all of the moaning and groaning made prison personnel overly sensitive to aboriginal deaths in custody, so now the aboriginal death rate is the lowest.

That does not stop the "we are the victims of white privilege" complainers of still pretending that blacks should have superior privileges to anyone else.

I suppose this emotive (and it's only about emotions, not facts) will fizzle out soon when something new and more exciting grips the imaginations of the usual suspects. For the time being, however, these stirrers will repeat lies about Aboriginal deaths in custody, and blame white people for it, and yabber about "a complex range of social and political conditions" when they are talking simple rubbish - nothing complex about it.

Cover talks of a "damaged society". Yes, our society is badly damaged - by him and his anarchist comrades.

I don’t know why anyone bothers to talk about reconciliation. It’s obvious that those involved in BLM movement are more concerned with causing division and stirring hatred. If you truly want friendship and acceptance between black and white in this country you don’t focus on calling white people privileged, murdering racists and set about destroying their cultural icons..

So much contradictory statements.
First I have seen reports that the death rate for indigenous in custody
is in fact less than for non-indigenous.
A further statement made is that
NO INDIGENOUS HAS BEEN KILLED BY POLICE OR PRISON GUARDS in the
430 deaths.
Another factor is definitions.
A person killed in a traffic accident while speeding by car from police
is said to be a death in custody !
This by definition is incorrect. They were after him because he was
not in custody !
We urgently need the Prime Minister to get up in parliament and state
what the facts are and put to bed all these conflicting statements.

All lives, black and white, matter, and to assert otherwise is racist. As evidence for the claim “In Australia, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are ten times more likely to die in custody than non-Indigenous deaths in custody”, you cite a Guardian article; but it proves no such case. In fact as “it’s not just about numbers” , it wanders at length on related issues. For example:
“While the most common cause of death for both Indigenous and non-Indigenous people in custody was medical issues, or what coronial reports refer to as “natural causes”, Indigenous people were much less likely to have been given all of the medical care they needed prior to their death.”

I read the first two paragraphs and went no further. The amount of misinformation was just beyond belief.
David

Well, our Professor Cover certainly has a cover-over his eyes ! May I suggest to him to get out of his indoctrination chamber & head out into the environment he writes about but knows nothing of !

Leslie,

Yes, let's settle this misunderstanding:

*. Indigenous people are perhaps ten times (for their population) more likely to be incarcerated than non-Indigenous people in Australia. Whether this means they commit offences at a similar rate would be on the public record.

*. currently, around 28 % of people in custody are Indigenous, while 23-25 % of deaths in custody are Indigenous.

Outside of custody, one could assert, Indigenous people have a higher rate of death, from suicide, assault, drownings, car accidents, and general ill-health, than non-Indigenous people. A much higher proportion of deaths from violence have been Indigenous women. Actually, almost the only suicides that I know of, in my sheltered life, have been Indigenous, some very dear friends.

Are Indigenous people arrested for little or no reason, stitched up and found 'guilty' of offences that they have not committed ? I honestly can't say that I have found that to be the case.

Yes, Indigenous people may have shorter lives. When I lived at one community, I went to so many funerals, so often for young people, that I calculated on one occasion that a third of the entire population seemed to be gone by forty.

And in fifty years, in rural areas, away from opportunities, that doesn't seem to have changed much.

Marginalisation has been the rule for most Indigenous people, thankfully fewer as more seize opportunities, such as in higher education - fifty thousand graduates have taken that path, one in seven or eight adults. But there are - and have been for a couple of generations now - two socially-distinct populations, one seizing opportunities, one sinking back into welfare and fostering another marginalised generation.

Joe

simple equation. Less crime equals less gaol equals less deaths in custody. blm matters are a group of Marxist thugs that cowards continue to cave into.

In relation to monuments, there seem to be three options:

*. leave them as they are, usually unknown statues, with few people knowing why they are there, who they are, or what they may have done;

*. rip the bastards down, smash them, throw them into the river, obliterate them and any future memories that they ever existed, or what they may have represented;

*. leave them where they are, put up detailed plaques of their deeds, good and bad, so that future generations can learn from them. Of course, for the young generations, the plaques could incorporate some sort of interactive video or audio, given that young people can't be expected to read.

In Adelaide, as the most progressive capitol city across Australia, dozens, maybe hundreds, of plaques have been set in the footpath of North Terrace, of world-famous South Australian achievers. For compulsory readers like me, that makes negotiating North Terrace a bit hazardous for anyone walking behind me. A fascinating history lesson every time.

We can't undo history. And we shouldn't forget history or pretend that we can obliterate it. But we can learn from it if we face it, warts and all.

Joe

Good article.

Dear Diver Dan,

No it hasn't. Get with it.

Dear Lego,

No it didn't it found the opposite.

Dear Big Nana,

It is division and hatred which has caused and maintained the disparity. There are some remarkable transformations in policing occurring as a result of the protests including far greater levels of police accountability, especially in the US. It is working and my hat goes off to those who have stood up on this issue, despite the scorn they have received from people like yourself.

Dear Bazz,

So David Dungay didn't die in custody then? Don't be so idiotic.

Dear runner,

Blame the victims for their poverty and disadvantage? How very un-Christian of you yet again.

'Dear runner,

Blame the victims for their poverty and disadvantage? How very un-Christian of you yet again.'

no Steelie I blame deceitful regressives like yourself who have championed the welfare state among the Indigenous, supported the re writing of history and despise those who have attempted to address issues that could lift people out of poverty. You are very much part of the problem with your hateful rhetoric.

Joe. As usual, erudite educated comment!

Big Nana. You make many valid points, most of which I can agree with.

We need to isolate and forensically, divide deaths in custody. Those that are caused when the police are pursuing a stolen vehicle/criminals and or, criminal perpetrators.
Those incarcerated for serious crimes and die of natural causes inside.
Those killed in prison by prisoner on prisoner violence.
And those where the police or prison warders have used excessive force that then resulted in a fatality.
And a knee on a neck is not the problem but the excessive duration!

We need to accept the role of humbugging activists, inequality and poverty in all of these outcomes and their beginnings.

Finally, how about we enrol some black policemen and make them entirely responsible for eliminating all black crime.
Alan B

Loudmouth
Spot on as usual.
The major challenge is not that indigenous citizens are being killed in custody; it is the high percentage of indigenous people who are incarcerated, especially young people. Protesting that the police are racist will not solve the problem. It is not the cause.
Underlying issues have to be tackled, health., education, employment, housing, substance abuse, family breakdown, and the high levels of violence.
Marching with placards and chanting yank slogans is worse than futile. “Black Lives Matter” is without programmatic or strategic content ; and worse, as Big Nanna points out , it is divisive, destroying the only basis for forging a political alliance that could effectively challenge it

unpacking the ethics :

What have ethnics got to do with feigned indignation ?

one really wonders why anyone would join the Police today. To have so many degenerates with arts degrees spitting on you, sleazy lying lawyers working against you and the lying left media always hiding the truth one would need to be masochist. The cops are the true victims in most cases.

Why are we worrying about Black Deaths ?
As a city dweller I have not seen a black indigenous person for as
long as I can remember in the flesh or on TV.
Perhaps if I were in the back blocks of the NT it might be different.
All the noise is being generated by white people, some claiming to be indigenous.
Some men are claiming to be women and some women are claiming to be men.
There was one man claiming to be a piano !
So are there people like the ABC's whiter than white indigenous author?
It seems that in a hundred years or so everyone will be white or yellow.
So all this kuffle is going on about a disappearing difference.
I note that someone on here does not understand the meaning of words.

Blame the victims for their poverty and disadvantage? How very un-Christian of you yet again.'
SteeleRedux,
No, not the victims, only those who pretend to be victims !

Steele Redux

*...All this nonesence has been debunked, catch up!...*

Yes it has/no it hasn't.

Not only is it debunked in our time, but debunked going back to Germany between the wars, when a shattered nation was resurrecting its domestic politic.

Some would say this period was the era of the rise of fascism. Effectively it was, but not without reason or cause.

Fascism grew from agitators such as BLM and gay marriage look alike, which were in their case, foreign insurgents from Russia, pushing communistIc doctrines.

Berlin was the epicentre of the struggle against its influence. A struggle that descended into gun battles between the two factions on the streets.

We have ample evidence from this historic event which tells us, the only law is at the end of a gun: the only effective opposition to the "left wing" (as some call it) anarchism, is rough justice on the streets. At the end of a gun barrel.

I'd be voting loudly for a fight back based on those tactics.

Dan

Love one of Trumps latest tweets "First thing the anarchist did upon taking over Seattle was “BUILD A WALL”. See, I was ahead of our times!'

Just for you Joe.

Runner,

Are you saying that the CHAZ people ARE correct to build a wall ? Or that, in either case, Trump's or theirs, it isn't right ?

As it happens, I don't think it's right in either case.

Of course, Seattle has been a hotbed of ratbaggery for well over a century.

Joe

Leslie,

Yes, let's settle this misunderstanding:

*. Indigenous people are perhaps ten times (for their population) more likely to be incarcerated. Whether this means they commit offences at a similar rate would be on the public record.

*. currently, around 28 % of people in custody are Indigenous, while 23-25 % of deaths in custody are Indigenous.

Outside of custody, one could assert, Indigenous people have a higher rate of death, from suicide, assault, drownings, car accidents, and general ill-health, than or non-Indigenous people. A much higher proportion of deaths from violence have been Indigenous women. Actually, almost the only suicides that I know of, in my sheltered life, have been Indigenous, some very dear friends.

Are Indigenous people arrested for little or no reason, stitched up and found 'guilty' of offences that they have not committed ? I honestly can't say that i have found that to be the case.

Yes, Indigenous people may have shorter lives. When I lived at one community, I went to so many funerals, so often for young people, that I calculated on one occasion that a third of the entire population seemed to be gone by forty.

And in fifty years, in rural areas, away from opportunities, that doesn't seem to have changed much.

Marginalisation has been the rule for most Indigenous people, thankfully fewer as more seize opportunities, such as in higher education - fifty thousand graduates have taken that path, one in seven or eight adults. But there are - and have been for a couple of generations ow - two socially-distinct populations, one seizing opportunities, one sinking back into welfare - and another generation of marginalisation.

Joe

'Are you saying that the CHAZ people ARE correct to build a wall ? Or that, in either case, Trump's or theirs, it isn't right ?

I don't say anarchist are right to do anything Joe. Personally I would put water cannons on them all. It would disperse them and give them their first wash for a long time. Just find it laughable that the first things these anarchist do is build a wall after throwing so many tantrums at your friend Dr Trump for doing the same.

Joe,It is a pity that statistically, no distinction is made between the two different cohorts of aboriginals. I suspect that generally, the life expectancy of the Urban group would be much better than the marginalised tribal ones. There would probably be a significant difference between the two groups on most measures with the so called gap being almost closed with the urban ones and if anything, probably widening with the tribal ones. In many cases, urban aborigines do somewhat better than poor whites.
David

Hi David,

I would hope that many urban Indigenous people are doing far better than many indigent non-Indigenous people IF they are putting far more effort into their lives.

As it happens, on the data available, Indigenous women are completing university in numbers which are slightly greater, for their population numbers, than non-Indigenous men each year. Of course, women generally are doing far better than men in Australia in terms of university graduate numbers, something like 58: 42 %.

Yes, very crudely, there are two Indigenous populations - one working, seizing opportunities, the other following a sort of family tradition into non-achievement, welfare and comparatively early demise. Yes, the graduates would tend to live and work (since they also tend to have been born) in the cities; the welfare population dominate in rural and remote populations, but are also strongly represented in the cities, usually in the outer suburbs and in social housing.

Changes to higher education costs may eat into Indigenous participation numbers, but one lives in hope that - given the amount of land which Aboriginal groups now control - enrolments in agriculture-oriented courses may increase.

But maybe not: I recall that after the Mabo Decision in 1993, when I was working in Indigenous student support at an SA university campus which included conservation management, I anticipated a significant rise in Indigenous applications, given (to my naive brain) the association between land and conservation. Boy, did I get that wrong.

Joe

What sort of degrees are the current aboriginal students undertaking. I have an impression that a lot of them finish up in the public service. Law seems popular. I would be good to see a lot of teachers.
David

David,

According to Ed. Dept stats, around 11,000 Indigenous students have graduated in Education to the end of last year.

Ed. Dept figures could be under-counting by up to 20 % (while ABS Census figures may over-count by at least as much), so - taking into account graduates who also complete post-graduate studies - I'd say there would be between ten and twelve thousand qualified Indigenous teachers across the country, a third with post-graduate qualifications as well. Give or take.

Currently, about four hundred Indigenous students (+/- 20 %) graduate as teachers each year.

Joe

I was wondering if Rob favoured pulling down every mosque in Australia considering Mohammed was a slave trader?

Now there is a thought Runner. How can we soo them onto each other ?
That could solve a lot of problems for all of the rest of us.
Anyway watch that space, they are both intent on world domination
and already are antagonists.

Joe. Back in 1962 I Was working at Rum Jungle, not too far from Wattie Creek where the Gurinji went on strike. It didn't take 50 native stockmen to run what was then a larger station than it is now, half a dozen at any one time would have been enough, but they all wanted full time wages. Wattie Creek is somewhat smaller now and has been given back to the natives, but would you believe the major part of the active work force is about half a dozen young white blokes. There are opportunities for hundreds of jobs on stations throughout the NT, and these stations must all be making money, so where is it all going to.
David