What does 'net zero' mean? Absolutely nothing. Nobody knows what will happen in 30 years time. Nobody knows what is happening now, with all the lies and rubbish being bruited about. Give the China virus, waffling about carbon dioxide, reducing carbon dioxide, climate change, and all the other fads is just crap.

With the economy crippled after the virus emergency, anyone rabbiting on about climate change and ramping up the cost of electricity and doing business will be torn limb from limb.

Hopefully Christians are seeking the living abd koving God at this moment while the gw cultist spruik their nonsense.

We could plant more trees and wait as rising temperatures, longer more enduring droughts, that turn them into fuel for even worse bushfires than we've ever experienced? Unless we could plant them in the dead heart?

Garnaut talks of us becoming a superpower via extracting hydrogen from coal and then exporting it to the world? And burying the carbon.

This would reduce our coal reserve quite massively, And pad the pockets of foreign coal barons, monumentally?

Sure it could be done! We know how. We also know that nobody can afford the astronomical cost of the shipped compressed product! And in that context, makes Garnaut look like an imbecile, rather than a qualified, leading economist

There's no problem with folks taking a trip to dream castles in the clouds, but a huge one when they take up permanent residence.

This coal-fired, diabolically disingenuous rubbish, comes straight out of the desperate, coal baron/robber baron's handbook?

The mystery is that some apparently sane and allegedly intelligent folk, are buying this, great big fat inexactitude? And queuing to buy shares, giggling all the while?

We're off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of Oz. TBC.
Alan B.

ttbn,
Net zero means we don't put any more CO2 into the air than we take out.
The effects of CO2 in the atmosphere are the same regardless of the state of the economy. But dealing with the problem doesn't mean paying more for electricity. Rising gas rices were the main cause of higher electricity prices.

runner,
Hopefully Christians are seeking the living and loving God at this moment while the denialist cultists spruik their nonsense.
Keep your eyes open! Whether something is true doesn't depend on whether it conforms to your misunderstanding of scripture.

Net-zero, is the term we could apply to our pocketbooks and bank accounts if any of this coal-fired insanity is acted on?

And because of the energy source whose name can't/won't be mentioned! Instead, we get a conga line of half-assed schemes from the coal lobby and its literate lackeys. Where we socialise the losses and privatise the profits.

And as such, they cannot lose! Just you and I/joe average/useful idiots, who keep returning these zero heroes time after time! And pay the tab! I mean, it was obvious from day one that the only way to stop covid-19, was a total shutdown and borders closed at the shire level. And even at the suburban level

Shoppers should've been obliged to show some photo ID, before they could've entered the local supermarket to buy what a maxed-out credit card could stand.

Had such behaviour come with a hefty fine, 3-5 demerit points or some such on the spot remedy. May have prevented the, she'll be rights, fruit-loops, from killing other folks far from their normal domiciles? Even as they emptied local village supermarkets!

All the cruises should have been quarantined on offshore islands, as if they were boat people, out to inflict harm! Talk about border security and the keystone cops policing it!

There's only one way to obtain zero emissions, without tanking the economy, but quite massively turbocharging it and that is via nuclear energy and electrifying the entire economy!

It's the sane equivalent of a total shutdown in the face of a pandemic!

And if done as it could be? Creating an economy and energy prices that is/are the envy of the world! I'll explain in chapter and verse later.
Alan B.

What they found in California was that both those touting carbon sinks and politicians politely refrain from talking about the problems with it.
https://energycentral.com/c/cp/california%E2%80%99s-cap-and-trade-program-may-vastly-overestimate-emissions-cuts
In FY 2019 land use contributed about -20 Mt to get to the net figure of + 532 Mt CO2e. Then some say summer fires added about 400 Mt almost doubling annual CO2. We're assured the fires avoided the 'carbon farms' paid under the Emissions Reduction Fund.

In Garnaut's happy world trees don't succumb to fire, dieback or drought. Yet key firefighters are saying we may be better off with fewer trees not more. Chemical carbon capture cannot possibly make enough difference, for example Gorgon failing so far in its promise to inject 120 Mt CO2 below Barrow Island WA. Then there's 'international permits' whereby basket weaving in the UKkraine or whatever will cancel out Australia's coal emissions. Articles like this need to keep pointing out it is largely fraud.

Aidan,

Perhaps you and people like you could stop exhaling, thereby reducing a lot of CO2 emissions, and a lot of hot air.

In a genuine crisis like the one we have now, carrying on about CO2 is irresponsible and stupid.

tbbn, runner. Spot on.

This was only worth reading to confirm the CCC (not KKK cousins, the guy who make expensive turbochargers for gas guzzling cars foer the rich like Merc owners, and Porsche hoons!) will do anything at any time even in mid crisis to promote their cause... akin to morons, clergy etc converting or asking for money at the death beds of confirmed atheists! and as bad as Adam, whining' Bandt contribution re rent assistance.

This is one on the most direct pieces of CCC propaganda/opportunism I have seen that will try to use the post-COVID19 to deliver Essery's "Scared New World" two days ago.

tos use an old saying of my Granny, " They would sell even their Granny to promote their Global warming driven "Scared New World"
CCultists, worse than religious' beggers' at an athesist death bed and funeral service.

I hate wasteing posts with ps add ons…. must be that senility Aidan has just today confirmed by his/she/it medical/professional 'virtual consultation with his telepathic CC powers' Impressive stuff we oldies are so baffled and impressed by.

Seriously, point is re "Australians, it seems, want coal exit, energy transition and Net Zero. The first two are plenty difficult enough. The third is something else." line in authors article.

Is this the same solid research (fact-checked by ABC Melbourne UNI CCC luvies)that gave us the "97% scientists agree/consensus", that CCCers Obama and IPCC so love to quote? …...and they had the hubris to accuse Ex-PM Howard of hubris!

At the moment is hard for "pig-ignorant", "senile" old-tarts like me which to be most threatened by, COVID-19 or Dr Norman Swan, 'Mads' the ABC Fact-check ( and also new Corona-check) girl, the CCC of Grimacing Greta... Yeah its Grimacing Greta, she probably has plans to euthanise old tart, climate realists like me and turn us into Solent Green....

Hmmmmmmm... yummy granny green, sugar free sweets to feed the indoctrinating kiddies at pre school, where teachers will say eating these is good for Gaia, using picture books showing the process in graphic detail! Kids luv that gory stuff!

Net zero means we don't put any more CO2 into the air than we take out.
Aidan,
Is that even possible ? I mean, unless we curb population growth the Net Zero thingo needs to be re-calculated. Increased population=increased output & usage !
But the planet is not increasing nor is its atmosphere or ability to absorb.
COVID-19 is our last wake-up call !

The IPA's Bella d'Abrera writes that the China virus has caused, "In a single, definitive stroke, the progressive social justice movement and all its trappings (to be) silenced". Sky's Paul Murray thought a few nights ago that the looney Left was frustrated because its constant chatter had been silenced.

Stephen Saunders hasn't about that

ttbn,
Perhaps you could just stop digging!
The problem is so big that even removing all those who care about it from the planet wouldn't be sufficient to solve it.

COVID19 is of course a more urgent problem, so it goes without saying that addressing it should take priority. But that doesn't mean we should keep silent on the other problems we have. It's not as if doing so will make the coronavirus go away any more quickly!

_________________________________________________________________________________

Alison Jane,
I did no such thing - I merely raised the question as a possible explanation of your extremely unscientific approach to everything. Though your lying about your credentials would be the simplest explanation, your senility would be a close second.

ISTR I mentioned on the other thread that denialists had trouble understanding that raising questions didn't mean the answers were always what the questioner thought.

_________________________________________________________________________________

individual
Yes it's possible. And it certainly doesn't need to be recalculated - zero remains the same whatever you divide it by. Admittedly a higher population does make it more difficult to achieve - but not much more difficult.

The planet's ability to absorb CO2 is not a constant; it's something we can increase. There are rocks that can react with it, and plants can absorb it (though we do have to be careful to ensure they don't just go up in smoke afterwards). For the most part the easiest way is to switch from processes that emit CO2 to ones that don't - but of course that's not always possible for everything.

Aiden are a troll or "max headroom"30 years on!

whatever you are you ar an intersteing species to watch development

lots of thanks may ego is so enlightened

I am now that "pig-ignorant","senile", Lying about my credentials", "name dropping" old tart/fart Alison Jane... my-word, give me much more of this accolades and I will need to print bigger vitual business cards.

"Sticks'n'stones may break my bones......" young-un what ever brand of troll you are he/she/it. Meanwhile in the real world and COVID-19 your beloved Gaia is killing innocents delivered by " climate stress" that drives bats virus to mutate to infect humans ... to much X-files science and 'weed' is the most likely cause for you CCC viral infection/condition

Alison Jane,
I must concede I failed to consider the possibility you were just trolling. That's a much better explanation for your illusory correlation than either senility or lying about your credentials.

Are you willing to explain why you're trolling? Or should I just stick to the cliché and stop feeding you?

One gets to net-zero by jettisoning those fuels that create emission! Then choosing from those that don't, be it in the home or transport options!

And needs to be so affordable even slum dog paupers can afford to select it as their most affordable preference!

Needs to be available 24/7, for our refrigerators and essential now, air conditioners

Hospitals etc/etc. and all emergency services, sewerage removal pumps, town water pumps, petrol diesel pumps and all irrigation pumps, emergency desal! It's a very long list of things a large population/big city needs 24/7! Elevators, air extraction and so on and so forth.

All the high rises would be uninhabitable without affordable, 24/7 electricity!

And if the solution ever becomes, solar panels and batteries e.g.,? Only the millionaire set will be able to afford them!

What we can afford is a solution paid for with other folk's money!

And as annual billions! And create huge new wealth and permanent employment opportunities!

And is Nuclear waste burning SMR MSR's Connected to very localised microgrids, All paid for with other folks repository rental money! Be it the reactors, the R+D, the new underground graphene grid or the new undersea cables we install to sell abundant, cheap carbon-free electricity to all our energy customers and hundreds more who currently are powered with increasingly expensive diesel.

And cheap enough to desal billions of annual litres of potable irrigation/town water from endlessly abundant seawater!

Couple that to Christian inspired, no losers, cooperative capitalism and a vastly simplified, but unavoidable flat tax, tax system and we do become an energy-exporting superpower with no pockets of poverty or unaffordable housing!

What prevents that new golden age future? Not very much, just a motley collection of inordinately greedy, power-obsessed, robber barons, served preferentially by the current status quo!

That's all!

Take care and stay safe.
Alan B.

You would know all about trolling, Aidan. You simply cannot leave alone anyone who doesn't comply with your own extreme views. In the short time Alison Jane has been among us, I haven't noticed that fault in her; she only reacts to pains in the neck like you. What you don't like about her is that she is a conservative, not afraid to express her views, and certainly not gullible enough to be sucked in by you, or bullied by you.

Alab B the climate-stress COVID virus is good for you. Liked the post. Can you send that rejected OLO piece as 2-4 posts.... or at least say no. Alternatively I will send you a tempory gamil address and you can send it there, so it would be a one-one confidential process for you

Cheers, sincerely I would like to read it and then

Dear Alison Jane,

I really can't understand what you are worrying about with regards to the coronavirus. There are only a few thousand infected in Australia. It can't be impacting you right now. The modelling might be showing that it will exponentially increase to threaten most Australians but you don't believe in modelling from those pesky academics do you. It is just the hard working local GP who you will listen too and you will find another if he or she proves to be spouting alarmist rubbish about a pandemic.

The climate fraud promoters have no scientific basis for their unproven assumption about human emissions.
There have been failed attempts, which were ludicrous, considering that human emissions are 3% and the rest is natural>
Itwould be more appropriate to direct efforts and funds to prosecution of fraud promoters like Michael Mann< The loss of the case for defmamatio against Tim Ball for defamation in calling him a climate fraud would be a good starting point.

AJ
Cannot comply as the article was rejected/in the bin and Graham's call! And his indisputable right as the editor.

If you want my email address, I'm ok with that but ask that you ask Graham to provide same. Otherwise, every green or antinuclear control freak could use that info to spam me to death. I know you know what I mean.
Cheers, and stay safe.
Alan B.

Cheers Alan B. While you don't like my views, I will glady create a temp address on Gmail and post once there I will accept no more so its a bit like Drop-box. I guarantee as pig ignorant senile old tart on a matter of honour, it will go nowhere as I wouldn't give them the opportunity, Th temp address is 'rory996@gmail.com' when youver sent it can you repost so I can shut it down to avoid Trolls

Cheers
AJ

AJ, #1/ suggest you read Thorium, Super fuel by prize-winning journalist and science writer, Richard Martin.

#2/ listen to a brief encapsulation by him on Utube, google tech talks.

#3/ Read Ivy league Professor and economist, Robert Hargrave's book, Thorium, cheaper than coal

#4/ Listen to his encapsulation on the above.

#5/ Listen to Engineer Jam Petersen explaining thorium and how we can use MSR technology to burn up nuclear waste, which in MSR is just so much unspent fuel with a much as 98% of the energy quotient retained and available.

And given we accept the world's nuclear waste as their safe repository they pay annual billions for. We just do not need to find the money from consolidated revenue for the multiple rollouts or R+D etc. And a new replacement graphene transmission grid would pay for itself in a decade or two with the huge reduction in transmission and distribution (75%) combined averaged losses.

Moreover, graphene (superconductor and 200 times stronger than steel) cored cables would allow us to more than replicate and possibly double or triple current energy exports to paying customers, where we become price fixers! Not take it or leave it, price takers!

Finally, take butchers at Kirk Sorensen's informative address on the topic on google tech talks or TED and something to do while you self isolate?

Also, look up back articles on energy or the environment here on OLO archives. Where I've commented Hope you find that helpful and useful?

Take care and stay safe.
Alan B.

AJ, don't always disagree with anybody! But I hope, judge on quality and merit.

Am quite capable of robust debate with no hard feelings.

[Weren't aware that you are a self-described, senile old tart? Or pig ignorant? I prefer to think of you as an undiscovered genius. Haha]

And If you care to look at OLO archives. you will find all the information that I know on MSR thorium and it's application as nuclear waste burning technology or its potential to produce more than useful quantities for free, of miracle cancer cure, that's been trialled in many CONVENTIONAL WESTERN MEDICINE, radioisotope, ontological, nuclear medicine clinics around the world.

Just not here and by divine decree or political prohibition or both as an absolutely asinine self-inflicted, prohibition on nuclear power!

Thanks for the trust, but I prefer that you get my email address from Graham, given he will know that you are safe and not Julian Assange, looking for personal information etc/etc.

As I haven't pulled any punches in relation to that criminal bail dumping computer hacker. And will not knowingly allow myself to be silenced by stealth and the criminal use of technology.

I hope I've helped and am quite comfortable with Graham providing my details, if he can confirm you bona fides.

Take care and stay safe.
Alan B.

Rafe Champion doesn't mind discussing "net zero by 2050", referring to renewable energy as a 'virus' :-

"We are infected with the RE virus already but the symptoms up to date have been relatively mild unless you regard doubling power prices as a serious matter, and blackouts in out of the way places like South Australia and a few districts in Victoria.

But the prognosis is not good, considering that all the states and the ALP are determined to increase the dose …… we had better spend some time looking ahead because the last thing we need to recover from the economic wreckage is a pandemic of over-priced and unreliable electric power."

Leo Lane,
> Itwould be more appropriate to direct efforts and funds to prosecution of fraud promoters
Indeed it would. I suggest we start with those who claim that "human emissions are 3% and the rest is natural" when humans are actually responsible for more that 100% of net emissions.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

ttbn,
Maybe i should recognise trolling as I've seen so much of it, but the fact remains that I completely failed to recognise Alison's trolling until she hypocritically accused me of it.

My views are not extreme, though they may appear that way because people with extreme views seem to congregate here. Indeed when I first arrived here this board was degenerating into a rightwing echo chamber. Despite what you're claiming I mostly leave you alone (you do seem to prefer ignorance) but occasionally I like to throw a it of truth your way. And that's certainly not a "fault" you'll see in Alison Jane: she seems to regard the truth as a poor substitute for her stereotypes!

Idiots of all kinds liken things they dislike to viruses. But the truth is that higher gas prices are the main reason for our high electricity prices, and renewables can and should be a big part of the solution. Meanwhile the coal fired power stations have proven themselves to be unreliable.

Aidan,

I feel sorry for you.