This cynical act of cowardly betrayal should serve notice on all the US's allies, that this Former strong friend to democracy and freedom the world over, is no more than an asset harvesting corporation!

And cannot be trusted or depended on to stand tall beside those who've already paid with their blood for the interests of the US, i.e. the now deserted Kurd!

My bet is, the ISIS caliphate will be reborn and presided over by another of Satan' servants!? Namely, the Turkish Tyrannical sabre-rattling Edgowan? AND THE REAL REASON FOR THE INVASION!?

And he's currently ensconced in power, with NATO's largest land army under his control and with at least 50 Nuclear warheads in his considerable arsenal!

Standing idly by and just allowing this to happen will ensure we are at war with ISIS for at least another century and a magnet for all the blood-crazed assholes the world over, who will as they already have, flock to join!

This cannot end well! And a predictable genocide of biblical proportions, in the making!?

Me? Well, given my druthers? I'd send President Edgowan a present, namely a cruise missile delivered post-haste, ASAP directly through his bedroom window, while he was ensconced inhouse!

And with that termination and limited collateral damage, limit the bloodshed to just as few as possible?

Imagine this was 1938 and we were able to remove Herr Hitler with something he just wasn't expecting at all in a single blow, say a trusted servant with a suicide vest or some such and before the hostilities began?

How many millions of other lives, most of them innocent, could have been spared by the timely death of one diabolical dictator!? And not mention the millions or billions in property damage!

Add in today's weaponry to that time advanced scenario and what do we get!?

Don't just do something, stand there!
Alan B.

Trump is doing just what he promised to do with regard to US foreign policy. Good on him. If only Australia had an honest, open leader.

The best friends we've ever had in the Middle East, now betrayed by that slime.

Yes, why should we care about the Kurds, they're a small population, along way away, with whom we have little in common, and few social or economic relationships ? As Neville chamberlain said of the Czechs in 1938.

And how did that turn out for Chamberlain and the gutless British ?

If I were the Kurds, I would turn out all those prison camps and let ISIS go for it, and rebuilt their caliphate. No, probably not. But what would you expect ?

Utterly despicable.

Joe

Erdogan will possibly release the ISIS prisoners in the hope of using
them to do his dirty work and so keep his hands clean.
That is a risky idea as the Arabs have no time for the Turks.
They consider them to be 2nd class muslims.
It rules out an Erdogan Caliphate.

The whole thing is very sad as the Kurds have been dealt a bad deal by history.
Still as Trump could have said the continuous warfare of the last 1400
years has to come to an end sometime but not with our involvement.
It is now time to say to the Middle East, we give up, we have spent
too many lives and too much money trying to sort out your mess.
Just do what you will and do not send any of your people out of the
Middle East, just kill who you wish but stay there and live with it.

Don't sell them any weapons and destroy what we can of theirs.
Let the UN deal with them if they are silly enough, but we, the west,
should just keep at arms length.

It is more complicated than I said above because of Nth Africa and
the Suez Canal. Iran is another complication but because of Hezbollah
they have to be lumpted in with the ME.
Israel, would complicate everything as a hands off policy would make
the Arabs think they could just attack Israel.
Israel of cause could literally eliminate any country that attacked them.

What a mess ! The "Final Solution" ?

"The best friends we've ever had in the Middle East, now betrayed by that slime. best friends we've ever had in the Middle East ….". 'We' being who, Joe? Most Australians wouldn't know a Kurd from a curd, the sort Mary ate with her whey in the nursery rhyme. If you mean 'we Australians', it's nothing to do with us. Our plastic PM is 'monitoring the situation', which means that he hadn't heard about it when asked for an opinion, and that he wants bugger all to do with anything that doesn't entail robbing pensioners.

We should have nothing to do with anything or anyone in the Middle East; our meddling so far, including helping out dumb presidents before Trump, the best since Ronald Reagan, has not panned out very well. Trump is the best thing going for the US and for the free world. And, he's never said a bad word about you.

Joe. Thank God there's at least one poster able to use the brains he was born with and rare common sense!
Cheers, Alan B.

Dear Loudmouth,

"Turkish forces have killed at least 277 Kurdish fighters in a major military operation in northeast Syria, now in its third day, Turkey's defence ministry says."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/turkey-military-operation-syria-latest-updates-191011060434166.html

Fighting with the Americans to defeat ISIS and a couple of Trump Towers now sees them dead.

It seems you can't take the business out of the businessman and people were foolish to think they could.

Ttbn,

We are Australians. Kurdish Australians are Australians. And Kurds in the Middle East laid down their lives by the thousands (12,000) in order to defeat ISIS. Perhaps you don't keep up with the news.

Kurds have been in the Middle East for thousands of years, and originally, before the Arab invasion in the seventy century, they occupied what is now Iraq and Syria and western Persia. It's their country, as it is/was when ISIS launched its dreadful push for a caliphate.

Now the West is abandoning them. They fought for you and me and we are now abandoning them. But you couldn't give a sh!t, could you ?

Joe

Joe,

Very romantic of you. You clearly believe the old mot that your enemy's enemy is your friend.

Kurds certainly have a beef with Arabs; nothing to do with us. The West should never have become involved in the Middle East and it's barbarous people. Your comment that "They fought for you and me" is fanciful to say the least.

And, no: I don't care about people who keep ancient hatreds alive. I do care about the conflicts they have caused in my country thanks to busybodies and do-gooders sticking sticking their noses where they don't belong.

Ttbn,

"The West should never have become involved in the Middle East and its barbarous people. "

But they did. And the US repays the Kurds for their dedication and sacrifices with betrayal. Nothing much romantic about all that, just pure gutlessness and deceit.

So what if ISIS breaks out again ? Is it true that Trump got his military men to advise the Kurds a few weeks ago to dismantle their defences ? And how come the Turks were already primed and ready to launch attacks on the Kurds within hours of Trump's betrayal ?

Round 2 of the battle against ISIS - and do you think the thirty-million Kurds should renew their dedication and sacrifices ? For the US ? Even for us ?

What a worthless bucket of dog vomit Trump is.

Joe

.

What happens outside Australia is beyond our control. We have to fix our domestic problem, attack it at its roots and stop producing fanatical Jihadist Islamists

We must eradicate fanatical Jihadist Islamism in Australia by every means at our disposal, including :

• Legislation of the offence of indoctrination and/or incitement to radical or physical Jihadism, assimilating it to “murder by proxy or intent to cause grievous bodily harm or reckless indifference to human life by proxy” – with a maximum penalty of life imprisonment, and a standard non-parole period of 20 years, or 25 years for the murder by proxy, or intent to cause bodily harm etc., by proxy, of a child under the age of 18

• Legislation of the offence of aiding and abetting Jihadists in Australia and anywhere else in the world by providing assistance and support of any nature whatsoever – with a maximum penalty of ten years

• The federal government should exert its authority on the Islamic institutions in order to obtain their agreement to the creation of a global Muslim institution : the Australian Muslim Association (AMA), responsible for organizing and funding the Muslim faith in Australia – training and remuneration of imams, construction of places of worship, devising theological regulations and monitoring procedures, and fighting against Islamophobia and anti-Semitism

• The AMA and Islam in Australia should pledge to remain perfectly independent, at all times and in all aspects – especially theologically and financially and especially in relation to all other Islamic authorities and institutions around the world.

.

Hear, hear and well said, Joe.

Currently, you're just about the only normal empathetic human being commenting here!

The Nazis even after steamrolling Europe! Eventually lost all they'd gained and earned a reputation as inhuman murdering monsters for one reason and one reason only!

They, like so many of our calloused and totally indifferent posters, lacked even so much of a trace of normal human empathy. And the only missing element that allowed them to conceive and perform so many inhuman atrocities!

The fact that so many of our (extreme right) regular resident posters can just yawn at the 12,000 lives the kurd gave protecting us and ours from the most murderous entity ever dreamed into existence! Speaks quite massive volumes about those indifferent posters! And none of it the least bit complimentary!

These morons couldn't find their feet in the dark with a torch! But then what can you expect? When to a generic man they can and do support a coward/garbage like a draft dodgingTrump?
Cheers, Alan B.

It's encouraging that the West can still produce a political leader who puts his own people and country ahead of sh.tholes, as he aptly describes them. Donald Trump has already accomplished about 17O of his electoral pledges, which have seen outstanding economic growth, job growth, increased manufacturing, lower taxes - you name it, he has done it. Huge improvements for women and minorities (which Left loons studiously ignore). And he is standing up to Communist China, unlike other Western pissants. He has dealt with ISIS, and he now rightly feels that people who have been bludging on the US should take more responsibility for themselves.

All of this has earned him the hatred and envy of snivelling Leftists, who are as of much concern to him as a midge is to an elephant.

Australia needs to clean up its act, too. Stop exporting jobs and importing useless people; start spending real money on defence; get out of the Paris agreement; stop indulging Leftist layabouts and unruly mobs; stop thinking that China thinks of us as anything more than another tinpot Pacific island, and look for markets elsewhere. There is not enough space for the things Australia must do to regain prosperity and self-respect.

Bother ourselves with a few backward tribes in the Middle East? Rubbish!

The tragedy for the US is that it has worthless turds on the right and worthless turds on the left, and not many politicians working for the broad centre.

Weird. Do both the idiot right and the idiot left actually WANT an End of Days, an Armageddon ? Starting with their abandonment of our most precious and reliable of allies, the Kurds ? Bringing back ISIS ?

And the 'left' wants - what ? Leninist socialism, the nationalisation of businesses and property, the turning of agricultural land into communes ? And so much other stupidities, which have been tried again and again and failed again and again ?

What a stinking swamp - two swamps - the US has become.

Joe

There is no point in us all attacking each others opinions.
We are all concerned about what is happening and none of us knows what
to do for the worse.
I think that sooner or later it had to come to this.
They are all fighting because either they disapprove of the others
version of Islam, or because they are not Arabs but Turks or Armenians
or whatever you can think that is wrong with the others.

Seeing that it has been done then lets confirm it and make it clear
that never again will a ME government be supported militarily or
financially and from now on they have to sort out their own problems.

Hopefully when they realise they are on their own it may cause a change of behavior.

Bazz,

Sensible comments. We should leave them to it. Past interference with other cultures has gone very badly for us; Australia, with the "refugees" resulting from our politicians' meddling in things they don't understand will never be the same again.

Refugees are costly to settle. Many have language difficulties; many are low-skilled, bring culturally-clashing values, and remain a drain on taxpayers and public services. Yet political points are often scored on the “virtue” of bringing in more refugees. Tellingly, refugees are usually settled outside of the enclaves of their enthusiastic supporters.

I think it could be equally said that the Kurds were using the US as a source of cheap/free weapons to enable them to settle a few centuries old grudges, they have longed to settle for decades.

Of one thing I am bloody sure, they weren't doing anything for the US or us, they were settling old scores.

If ever anyone was interested is studying the results of multiculturalism, look no further than the middle east. If still in doubt about the disaster multiculturalism is, then have a look at Sri Lanka.

This whole notion that the Kurds somehow helped the US destroy ISIS out of mere friendship is just a complete perversion of the facts.

The Kurds were/are the natural enemy of ISIS and were already fighting ISIS before the US turned up. It was merely a confluence of shared interests. Both sides wanted to defeat ISIS and shared interests led to shared forces. The Kurds fought on the ground and the US provided air support.

But the idea that the US owes the Kurds something is a crock. The Kurds owe the US just as much. Without the Kurds ISIS wins or is much more difficult to defeat. Without the US the Kurds are massacred and their women are currently sex slaves to the caliphate.

But the US isn't obligated to be the Kurds permanent air force.

Trump promised to get the US out of the interminable wars which have little value to US interests.

In the end the US never really had any vital interest in Syria or that general area. With the fracking revolution, the US is a net oil exporter so they have no vital interests in the region at all.

There is no reason for the US to expend blood and money trying to arbitrate millennia old disputes. They still have some obligation to not leave old allies in the lurch but that's not happening to the Kurds.

If Trump gets 4 more years,look forward to him pulling out of Afghanistan and forcing the anti-Iranian coalition to shoulder the bulk of the effort against Iran. A Saudi/Israel alliance is in the wind.

China on the other hand has a vital interest in keeping the ME calm since it is utterly reliant on Hormuz remaining open. It'll be interesting to see how they handle that.

When Trump came to power, the anti-Trump brigade assured us he would be so reckless that he would stumble into WW3. Now that the opposite is happening, they seem very upset and want him to be more belligerent

How dare the US try to protect it's own. Three minutes that'll help you understand Trump's motives....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKDedUrzK3I

Remember when Hillary and the Obamessiah shame-facedly lied to the families of those killed in Benghazi?

Chalk and cheese

An even wilder claim than Joe's on Kurds was seen today: a photograph of a woman holding up a sign saying that 'The Kurds Saved Humanity'.

Ttbn,

And you've done ..... what ?

Joe

Joe,

Absolutely nothing. What am I supposed to have done? What have you done to 'save humanity'? Badmouthing Trump doesn't seem to have worked for you. He is more popular than ever by everyone except the Democrats and the Yankee media. Now, there is somebody who is doing something. He might even have to save all of us one day, not that you could possibly accept of course.

.

To all and sundry,

.

While I agree with Loudmouth (Joe) when he writes : « … the US repays the Kurds for their dedication and sacrifices with betrayal », I am more concerned that Australia is following suit and doing exactly the same.

Samantha Maiden wrote in the NewDaily on Oct 10, 2019 :

« Mr Trump remains under fire from critics, including Britain and high-profile Republican supporters for abandoning the Kurds, who have worked with the US to fight Islamic state, to the Turkish onslaught as they invade the country. The Turks regard the Kurds, who have worked with the US to repel Islamic State, as terrorists themselves.

But Mr Morrison said it was a matter for Turkey.

“It is the Turkish government that’s doing that, and it’s the actions of the Turkish government that concern Australia very seriously,” he said.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s ‘Peace Spring’ mission is designed to secure a 32-kilometre corridor on the Turkish-Syrian border.

“The decision of the United States is a matter for them,” he said.

“It’s a sovereign decision of the United States. It’s not for me to run a commentary” ».

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2019/10/10/morrison-syria/
.

Our Prime Minister is quite right : the United States is a sovereign country. It is free to make its own decision.

Australia is too. So what is ours ? Does our Prime Minister consider that Donald Trump’s decision is valid in Australia ? Who takes decisions of that importance for us – the president of the United States, Donald Trump or the Prime Minister of Australia, Scott Morrison ?

Has our country, Australia, also made a sovereign decision to betray the Kurds ?

If so, I think it would have been nice if the Prime Minister had informed us of it and offered us some sort of explanation.

Don’t you ?

.

The Kurds were never anything other than pawns in a plot to make a piece meal out of Syria.

The thing that bothers me is how much you all seem to defend the Kurds, but none of you pay a second of care towards the Syrian people who've had foreigners attacking and occupying their nation for the last 7 years.

This proves how much you all are victims of corporate media narrative and are bareley capable of thinking for yourselves.

What about Syria being a sovereign country?
They're recognised by the UN.

All foreign actors should get the hell out of dodge.
They have no right or justification for being there.

You're all victims of the news which is largely propaganda.

Did you hear about the coup in Iraq?
No because they would make the US look bad.

Did you hear about the Iranian tanker getting bombed?
it would be a different story if it was a Saudi Tanker

Did you hear the Yemeni's capturing 2000 Saudi Troops and a contingent of US military vehicles?
We don't want the inept Saudi Army to face desertion do we?

Do you not think the US was supporting IS in Syria?
Who else were they supporting there?
Their objective was to remove Assad
Israel hates Hezbollah, they're their enemy not IS.

A failed regime change, millions dead or displaced
- And for what?

Greater Israel Project?

"Mr. Trump remains under fire". Mr. Trump is always under fire, but it doesn't worry him a jot. Unlike Australia's pansy politicians, he is a strong man of great conviction - not one to be put down by mewling Leftists with a death wish for their culture.

Nobody is "betraying" the Kurds. And what Turkey - totally alien to the US and Australia - does is a matter for Turks to sort out. Australia has enough problems of its own. It's only a matter of time before nonsensical multiculturalism is going to be dragged up, and nutty talk about Turkish immigrants and their 'wonderful contributions' to Australia will be sprayed around.

It's good to hear the admirable Donald Trump pronouncing the Turkish President's name the way it is written, too, instead of copying the way non-English speakers say it.

A good point there from Armchair Critic about Kurd waffle when it's not their country being attacked.

Just 100 US troops in Syria was all that prevented a blood-lusting Turkish tyrant from invading and a blood bath for US allies. Allies who'd paid with their lives by the thousands!

And were before this cowardly betrayal, just to bolster reelection prospects and for no other reason! Still keeping a thousand or so ISIS prisoners behind secure wire!

Now credible report sees them lose and at large. The Turkish tyrant's reason for this insane invasion? Clearly, his sympathetic views toward ISIS have long been well known and well ventilated by that "gentleman"!

Further, there are a few misguided Australian citizens now at risk of annihilation as they now await their fate in now uncontrolled former Kurdish controled prison camps and given other nation ar and have been going in and bringing their folk home!

That's the least we can now and should do! We have enough laws to detain them for as long as we need to deradicalise those who need such and we can test its efficaciousness with unbeatable, space-age lie detection!

Something that could also be deployed to process the huge and exponentially growing queue of new plane arrival asylum seekers, much more expeditiously!

Who after all, are humans and not some political football to be used to proper the election prospects of Slime and grubs!
Alan B.

So 'patriotism' now means that you piss off and leave your former allies in the lurch ?

Lest we forget, indeed.

And of course ISIS will re-group in Syria and Iraq, and disinter the corpse of their caliphate, in cahoots with the Turks. Maybe even Trump knows that, which is why he's sending more troops into Saudi Arabia.

Iraq is in a state of anarchy, so ISIS will easily set up their caliphate their again. Yes, eventually, they may turn towards Europe, but Erdogan thinks that's his baby. He'll use ISIS, then turn on them. No honour among thieves.

Speaking of thieves and Trump, how's his twin towers going in Istanbul ?

Meanwhile, the utterly useless Democrats fluff around, moving further 'left'. So both Trump and the Democrats ignore the majority centre ground.

Oh Mr Hart, what a mess.

Joe

Syria Plan A: Using IS to overthrow Assad

When that didn't work...

Syria Plan B: Supporting Kurdish independence to balkanise the country
As well as deprive Assad of oil revenue needed to fight the war and rebuild the country;
As well as provide oil revenue to fund the war against Assad.

John Kerry says partition of Syria could be part of ‘plan B’ if peace talks fail
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/23/john-kerry-partition-syria-peace-talks

Syria plan C - Just have Israel keep bombing them and the Iranians, block their oil shipments and funds to rebuild and make up slanted news narratives...

Loudmouth "Iraq is in a state of anarchy".
I saw a video a few days back of about 15 to 20 thousand Iraqi's storming across a city bridge packed like sardines, The events currently going on are pretty big I think.

- It's actually another US sponsored regime change.
Apparently Iraq is using Iran and China to rebuild, and the current government is not complying with the US geopolitical agenda.
Sorces with the Iraqi government knew there was a coup and regime change planned some months ago, I could find you a link but I'd have to dig a bit from a few days back.

I've looked at the live war map.
http://syria.liveuamap.com/
The Turks haven't done much harm yet, but they have made some inroads, and I expect will soon have cut off a key highway between Manbij and Qamishli, if they haven't done so already.
Reports of Turkish backed militia's killing unarmed captured civillians and the killing of a female Kurdish politician Hervin Khalaf.
https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2019/12-october-images-of-a-suv-that-was-carrying-cochairwoman

This killing has also been reported in our media.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/13/female-kurdish-politician-among-nine-civilians-killed-by-pro-turkey-forces-in-syria-observers-say

“Victimhood rather than stoicism or heroism has become something eagerly publicised, even sort after, in our culture. To be a victim is in some way to have won, or at least to have a head start in the great oppression race of life. At the root of this curious development is one of the most important and MISTAKEN JUDGEMENTS of the social justice movement; that oppressed people (or people claiming to be oppressed) are in some way better than others, that there is some decency, purity and goodness which comes from being part of such a group” (Source: ‘The Madness Of Crowds’)

Now, whether of not Kurds themselves would seek victim status is unknown. But, victim status is certainly being sort for them here by the usual suspects - for purely ideological, political reasons, and to vent their spleens against Donald Trump.

The real tragedy is that Turks and Kurds are natural allies, like the British and the Irish.
The Americans should have set up talks to negotiate a permanent peace. Instead they stepped back, allowing control to be seized by those who don't want peace; unfortunately those include Erdogan.

.

To all and sundry,

.

There’s nothing wrong with Trump pulling back the American troops from Syria, per se. They were not destined to remain there indefinitely.

They were there on a specific mission : eradicate ISIS, as leader of the International Global Coalition (IGC) : 23 countries (including Australia) providing military support and 72 countries providing non-military support.

The major contingent of troops on the ground were supplied by the Kurds who engaged the enemy face to face and suffered the heaviest casualties (11,000 troops killed and many more injured).

The problem is that the American troops had not completely finished their mission when Erdogan decided to invade Syria to attack the Kurds, prompting Trump to withdraw his troops, plunging the IGC into disarray.

As a result, the Kurds, who had been a valiant and loyal ally to the Americans and the IGC, have been abandoned and betrayed, left to defend themselves, alone, against the second most powerful military force in NATO.

About 2 million Kurds live in north-eastern Syria, also known as Rojava, constituting the largest ethnic minority in Syria. The Turks have already forced 100,000 to flee the region, killing and injuring countless civilians.

Erdogan’s declared objective is to force the Kurds to evacuate a 32 km deep zone along the Turkish border to create a buffer between the Syrian and the Turkish Kurds he considers to be terrorists. He intends to replace them by the 3.5 million refugees he is being paid by the Europeans to prevent entering the European Union.

He has told the Europeans if they are not happy with that, he will open the flood gates and let them flee into Europe.

Also, as the Kurds rally to defend themselves, they abandon the prison camps housing the 100,000 captured ISIS fighters and their wives and children who are escaping and dispersing, en masse.

Like the mythical phoenix, ISIS is about to rise from its ashes and be born again.

Trump says it’s not his problem. It’s the problem of Europe and other nations that harbour fanatical Jihadist Islamists.

.

Banjo,

A bit late: once the US invaded Iraq, it put in train a vast complexity of unanticipated outcomes. And anybody could have told them that the Middle East was an exceptionally complex political environment.

Like Bosnia, the Kurdish lands are in one of those religious and ethnic 'crunch zones': Bosnia is in that unhappy zone between Orthodox Christianity, Catholic Christianity and Islam. The Kurds have been in those lands for perhaps many thousands of years, long before Turks arrived in Turkey and Persians in Persia from central Asia, and long, long before the Arabs burst out of the Arabian Peninsula. A thousand years ago, even central and perhaps parts of southern Iraq were Kurdish. Saladin (Salah-ud-Din) was a Kurd, born in Tikrit.

So they're nobody's particular friend. Yet it's their country, for more than thirty million Kurds. If Kurdistan was a single country, it would have more people than Syria or Iraq. Or Jordan or Saudi Arabia. The Kurds have far more gender equality than any of those neighbours. In fact, this may be one reason why it is disliked by neighbouring governments.

So who are the allies of the US in the Middle East now ? Saudi Arabia. And only because of its oil. As the US moves to renewables as the next truly-ruly Big Thing in capitalism, admittedly in many decades yet, they would obviously abandon the Saudis just as they've gutlessly abandoned the Kurds. No honour among thieves.

Joe

So what's going to happen from now on ?

* ISIS will re-group and re-form its caliphate in south-west Syria and western Iraq; this time without the Kurds playing an active role to defeat them;

* Iran will move in to replace the US, and push their forces right up to the Israeli border; they will leave ISIS alone for the time being;

* Iran may (de facto) absorb southern Iraq and deploy bases and troops along the Saudi border; that should keep the US busy protecting its oil interests; at least until they can go CSG and renewables, then the Saudis are on their own. Couldn't happen to nicer people;

* Turkey won't pull back yet, and maybe not at all: there will be a deal between Iran, Russia, Syria's Assad and the Turks to screw the Kurds, our one-time and one-and-only faithful ally in the Middle East;

* The US will pretend that they are extremely busy with other issues and look the other way. Gutless wonders.

And all Trump had to do was leave a token force in the area, a thousand troops at what ? A few million dollars a day ? Peanuts.

So contemptible.

Joe

Turkish attack on Kurdish-held town allows 950 ISIS detainees to escape

http://www.axios.com/isis-detainees-northern-syria-turkey-kurdish-ec58db13-93c0-4c9c-8158-6d4b8dbb6e9c.html