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The Forum > Article Comments > Can a Labor leopard change its spots? > Comments

Can a Labor leopard change its spots? : Comments

By Spencer Gear, published 19/9/2019

Can the Labor Party win back voters lost at the last election through changes of policies? Or will religious people see it as a suck up?

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Armchair Critic,

<<Spencer wants not only write the articles and state the questions, He wants to mark and answer your questions for you like a school teacher; And scold you like a child when he thinks your answers don't fit into his own ignorant worldview.>>

You guarantee we can't have a rational conversation when you engage in this Appeal to Ridicule Logical Fallacy. You presented your argument to try to make mine look stupid, by the use of exaggeration.

We cannot have a reasonable discussion when you avoid dealing with the issues I raised in the article and here appeal to mockery. You are the one who has made this error in reasoning: http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/42/Appeal-to-Ridicule

Now get back to the topic: Can the Labor leopard change its spots in values to make it more attractive to the people of faith, no matter what religion?
Posted by OzSpen, Friday, 20 September 2019 6:23:41 PM
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david f.

<<The fact that belief is not evidence is obvious to any reasonable person, but your superstition overrides reason. I will leave you to it.>>

You don't seem to realise that when you place your fingers on the keyboard and commit an Ad Hominem (circumstantial) Fallacy against me, you actually proclaim your beliefs - loud and clear.

Thank you for confirming again your atheistic beliefs when responding to my beliefs. My beliefs are based on sound evidence which you refuse to accept. Your beliefs are grounded in faith of atheism.

My beliefs are grounded in the facts of the Lord God's creation of the heavens and the earth, working throughout history, and through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ - to offer us eternal life.

The reliable Bible has been established as a credible witness for the Judeo-Christian world view, using the methods of historical investigation. But you don't want to deal with that kind of evidence.
Posted by OzSpen, Friday, 20 September 2019 6:33:37 PM
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Dear OzSpen,

Asserting nonsense does not make it other than nonsense. Asserting that the Bible is a reliable document does not make it a reliable document. By what process was the Bible decided to be a reliable document? The burden of proof rests upon one who makes an assertion. It is not a reliable history, scientific or guide to morals. It accepts slavery. Most people at this time do not think slavery is moral. The Bible is no more reliable than the Muslim Koran, the Buddhist Tripitaka or the Hindu Bhagavad Gita. The Bible is one document supporting one religion while other documents support other religions. In my opinion they are all superstitions.

The concept of a Judeo-Christian world view is itself nonsense. Christianity is centered around the worship of Jesus. He has no place in the Jewish religion. Judaism and Christianity are contradictory belief systems.
Posted by david f, Friday, 20 September 2019 7:23:54 PM
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david f.

<<Asserting nonsense does not make it other than nonsense.>>

That is your assertion that proves noting - zero.

<<Asserting that the Bible is a reliable document does not make it a reliable document. By what process was the Bible decided to be a reliable document?>>

I think I'm wasting my time providing you with information on how the Bible is demonstrated to be a trustworthy historical document. The same historical methodology that is used to demonstrate the authenticity of any document from history is applied to the Bible and it is found to be a credible book of history.

Examples of historical research on the Bible to demonstrate its reliability are through ancient historians such as Dr Paul Barnett,

+ Jesus and the Logic of History, http://www.koorong.com/product/jesus-and-the-logic-of-history-new-studies_0851115128

+ Jesus and the Rise of Early Christianity, http://www.ivpress.com/jesus-the-rise-of-early-christianity

+ Kenneth Kitchen, On the Reliability of the Old Testament, http://www.koorong.com/product/on-the-reliability-of-the-old-testament-k_0802803962?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.koorong.com%2F

+ Craig Blomberg, On the Historical Reliability of the New Testament, http://www.koorong.com/product/the-historical-reliability-of-the-new-testament-the_9780805464375

+ N T Wright, Jesus and the Victory of God, http://www.koorong.com/product/jesus-and-the-victory-of-god-02-in_9780281069798?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.koorong.com%2Fproduct%2Fthe-historical-reliability-of-the-new-testament-the_9780805464375

+ John Warwick Montgomery: History, Law and Christianity, http://www.1517.org/shop/products/history-law-and-christianity

I don't expect you to pay attention to this scholarly evidence as you are tuned out to historical methodology that verifies or rejects the historical reliability of the biblical documents. The same methods are used in these publications as by Manning Clark in A Short History of Australia, http://www.penguin.com.au/books/a-short-history-of-australia-9780143005056
Posted by OzSpen, Friday, 20 September 2019 8:06:59 PM
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Dear OzSpen,

There are books supporting biblical narratives and there are books denying biblical narratives. I have not gone into these books you mention, but I know there are places where the Bible is unreliable.
According to the Bible the earth is about 6,000 years old, the sun stood still at the battle of Jericho, slaves should obey their master and it is wrong to combine two different materials such as linen and wool to make a garment.

Do you believe the earth is about 6,000 years old, the sun stood still at the battle of Jericho, slavery is ok and it is wrong to combine linen and wool?

At one time I believed in the Bible outside of the New Testament. One big influence on me becoming an atheist was reading the Bible and history.

When I was a child I heard the story of the binding of Isaac. I asked my father what he would do if he heard a voice from God telling him to sacrifice me. He said he would see a psychiatrist. That seemed a sensible answer. A God that asks a father to kill his son is an evil God which I reject.

The Christian religion has an ugly history of oppression of heretics, Jews, indigenous peoples, scientists and others who didnít fit into the Christian scheme of things.

I find Christian justification of that history in the New Testament. One of the evil sayings attributed to Jesus is Matthew 12:30. He that is not with me is against me.

The logical conclusion is that if you do not believe in Jesus you are the enemy. It is a doctrine of intolerance. You will not be left in peace if you donít believe. I think it better to accept somebody who doesnít believe as you believe. Try to be friends in spite of the difference in belief. Donít act as Jesus and make a person who doesnít believe as you do an enemy.
Posted by david f, Friday, 20 September 2019 11:02:26 PM
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Hey OzSpen,

"You guarantee we can't have a rational conversation when you engage in this Appeal to Ridicule Logical Fallacy."

We can't have a rational conversation because frankly you're not really much of a rational person.

You have a poor understanding of how communication works.
That is, you don't control what I can and cannot say;
- But you can make yourself look like a idiot.

Logical Smogical...
- Your so called 'fallacies' are just what you say when you're backed into a corner and tant out like a girl, Spence.

There are no rules in discussions.
I can make whatever points I wish, however I wish (this includes making fun of and humiliation because its a non violent form of correction) and the others will be the judge of whether or not the things I say hold merit.

If you say, do or act in a way that's stupid I'm entitled to point it out, because it serves to teach one not to do said stupid thing again.

There are no rules, Chaos rules.
And that's why you keep digging holes for yourself and backing yourself into a corner trying to control others thoughts and opinions..

"You presented your argument to try to make mine look stupid, by the use of exaggeration."

I didn't try to make your argument look stupid;
I tried to make you look stupid, and I didn't try hard.
- Also I wasn't exaggerating...

"Can the Labor leopard change its spots in values to make it more attractive to the people of faith, no matter what religion?"

You may be asking two questions.
The simple answer is no, they can't change their spots;
- And if you saw the bigger picture in things you'd know they can't and know that it's a moronic question.
Go on, ask me why.

That said, I'm sure they will try to make it appear that they have for ignorant fools who are dumb enough to believe them.

- But it makes no real difference anyway -
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 21 September 2019 3:48:41 AM
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