To David f.

I'm sorry, I didn't see your prievous post before I replied. In light of that here are a few questions. You're suspicious of the information in the videos, but do you have any other source to point to to correct the videos? The skull of a fetus in a late term abortion might still need to be broken up because it is too large and too strong for the suctioning tool in abortions, even if the skull hasn't hardened completely. If there is some information you have to point to actual abortions .

This is an oppurtunity to refute the information givens in the videos. If nothing is refuted, then the silence is it's own response. I understand they came from a pro-life orginization, and if the information is inaccurate, then the pro choice and pro abortion positions should have an ample oppurtunity to refute the information with their lives wn sources about the abortion processes. Again silence from medical doctors is it's own response.

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Dear Not_Now.Soon,

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The educational abortion videos you posted are quite impressive, but, unfortunately, I have to say I am not qualified to judge their accuracy or validity.

Having looked-up Dr. Anthony Levatino on the internet I see that he and his wife, Cecelia, had “an infertility problem” and were unable to have children. They finally managed to adopt a little girl, Heather. Then he tells the story :

« Life was good until June 23, 1984. On that date, I was on call, but I was at home at the time, and we had some friends over, and our children were playing in the back of the yard. At 7:25 that evening, we heard the screech of brakes out in front of the house. We ran outside and Heather was lying in the road. We did everything we could, and she died.

« I went to a Catholic conference in Connecticut a couple of weeks ago. I gave my usual talk and didn't go into the whys, and one of the bishops came up to me afterwards. He said to me: You haven't told me why you quit. I kind of avoided it. I told him, and he was the one who encouraged me by saying, you should tell that story. You should let people know.

« Let me tell you something. When you lose a child, your child, life is very different. Everything changes. All of a sudden, the idea of a person's life becomes very real. It is not an embryology course anymore »

That is why Dr. Levatino couldn't do abortions anymore. That is why he has fallen into the hands of the pro-lifers. They greeted him with open arms, of course.

Here is his very sad story :

http://www.priestsforlife.org/testimonies/1127-testimony-of-dr-anthony-levatino---former-abortion-provider

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Dear NNS,

I don’t find the video credible.

Dear OzSpen,

Comparison of abortion to the Nazi holocaust is rubbish. No one is out to kill all embryos. It is an insult to the memory of the alive and conscious Jews murdered by the Nazis to equate them with embryos for pro-life propaganda.

The following is an article on the subject.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/03/comparing-abortion-to-the-holocaust-has-a-long-history-in-the-pro-life-movement.html

My cousin committed suicide when an abortion might have enabled her to get on with her life. If she had an abortion would she have become a Nazi? Shame on you. Her boyfriend was killed fighting the Nazis and left her pregnant. Unfortunately, many of those who oppose abortion usually don’t think of what the woman’s life would be like if she doesn’t have an abortion.

God’s law? How do you know God doesn’t favor abortion?

https://www.thoughtco.com/when-did-abortion-begin-721090

“Abortion is never explicitly mentioned in the Bible, … The absence of any discussion of abortion in the Bible is conspicuous, and later authorities attempted to close the gap.”

In the debates about abortion in olo I have rarely seen the welfare of the woman mentioned. She is just a vehicle for the fetus. To hell with that hussy. All hail the fetus.

Many of the anti-abortionists are addicted to emotive, false arguments. One false argument is pointing out the dangers to the woman of an abortion while ignoring the danger of giving birth.

Any invasive medical procedure carries risk, but a legal abortion is less risky than giving birth.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-abortion-idUSTRE80M2BS20120123

“Researchers found that women were about 14 times more likely to die during or after giving birth to a live baby than to die from complications of an abortion.”

With good medical care in both cases the risks are small.

I regard abortion as a woman’s right. She should have the right to terminate a pregnancy if she feels a continuation of it would be bad for her. I am more concerned with the adult woman than I am with the fetus in her.

Dear OzSpen,

«I find it irrational that you don't distinguish between a human being and an animal to see and understand the value of human beings is superior to that of animals.»

This misrepresents what I said: I compared grown up and fully-developed animals with yet-to-develop-and-learn humans.

I consider it rational to compare and value the level of development: physical, emotional, mental and of course spiritual. Humans are capable of much more (other than physically) than animals, but it takes years of hard work. Also looking at the behaviour of SOME people, and of SOME animals, the animals score better.

Did you know that chimpanzees develop intellectually similarly to human babies until the age of 3? It is at that stage that they stop and develop no further.

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Dear Not_Now.Soon,

«I don't understand why you think it's more spiritually healthy to have an abortion then it is to give birth.»

I don't!
(had this been the case, then the question of abortion would have been trivial so impregnating and aborting as fast as one can would be a recipe for sainthood...)

I thought I made it clear enough that the videos only discuss the PHYSICAL health of the mother, while the arguments against abortion are spiritual. I am not a doctor, but it is my impression that on pure medical grounds (excluding mental health) it is comparatively healthier to have an abortion than to carry a baby to full term. I may be wrong about it, but the videos failed to produce a comparison.

With regards to intimacy of married couples, I agree, but at this day and age with the state of the world as it stands, it is best for them to get sterilised, then enjoy the intimacy as best they can.

Dear Banjo Paterson,

Couldn’t access the url.

OzSpen wrote: I find it irrational that you don't distinguish between a human being and an animal to see and understand the value of human beings is superior to that of animals

Dear OzSpen,

I don’t find it irrational at all. I don’t understand that the value of human beings is superior to that of the other animals. You’re just speaking from a human point of view.


An eagle has better eyesight. A dog can run faster. A shark lives longer. Other animals are superior to us in many ways. We have bigger brains. Does having bigger brains make us superior? Brains are just another organ. We are part of nature like other animals. We have fantasies such as life after death, but after our death we become inert matter like other animals after their death. Like other animals we ingest food, eliminate waste and breed. We invent gods and religion, but we are just another animal. We may casually snuff out the life of an ant. However, isn’t the ant’s life as precious to the ant as ours is to us? We mourn our battlefield dead, but in a cosmic view is it any more than the life of an ant killed in a struggle with another anthill?

One of the five vows of Jainism is found in the following.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

Ahimsa, "intentional non-violence" or "noninjury": The first major vow taken by Jains is to cause no harm to other human beings, as well as all living beings (particularly animals). This is the highest ethical duty in Jainism, and it applies not only to one's actions, but demands that one be non-violent in one's speech and thoughts

Western religions are anthropocentric and don’t recognize our kinship with all life. Fundamentalist Christians generally don’t support environmentalism.

OzSpen, Explain to me why a human being is more valuable than another animal. I find it quite rational to regard any member of any species as equally valuable.

To Banjo Paterson

Thanks for watching the video and the link. The second half of the videos are and interview with the Doctor,band he covers a lot of the same stuff in the link. But not everything is the same, so thanks for sharing the link as well. It is a sad story.

To David f.

It wasn't as easy to find but here's another source for the procedure of abortions. The descriptions sound like they validate the descriptions in the video. This is how abortions kill the human inside the women receiving an abortion. With a suctioning tool and a "combination of tools."

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/abortion/in-clinic-abortion-procedures/what-happens-during-an-in-clinic-abortion

To Yuyutsu.

I mentioned the physical part because I think often our physical health affects our emotional and behavioral well being. I don't know your views on spiritual health, so again I don't understand how going full term would be less healthy spiritually, then having an abortion.