Hey Rodney. You are a lefty, and you support "transgender rights", don't you? Well, that's great. So, you support the rights of 1200 (according to the last census) people who call themselves "transgender" to dictate to 25 million Australians what their rights should be?

Naw, Rodney, democracy doesn't work that way. You see in a democracy, the majority is supposed to make the rules. A minority can ask for special dispensation for exemption from those rules, but they need to make a convincing argument for that and get electoral support for it. Now, you may have some support for your wacky idea that there is no gender from the noisy anti everything people, but your support is still an insignificant minority, although this minority may have political clout because they infest the media.

But when you go around demanding that 25 million people agree with your crazy position that that no gender exists, and when the loony left supports this insanity, then this drives millions of voters into the waiting arms of the conservative parties. And you wondered why Trump won the US presidential election?

Reality check to Rodney. People are concerned with their ever rising electricity prices. Kim jong Un has nuclear warheads and he may be able to mount them on ballistic missiles capable of reaching Australia. The evil Mullahs of Iran are building both missiles and they are trying to build nuclear warheads, and they have an ideology which considers the end of the world to be a good thing. The Nationalist and Socialist Chinese regime is demanding that an entire ocean and all of it's resources belong to China.

And all you care about is transgender toilets and transgender pronouns.

A lot of writing, a lot of fuss for a very few people on a topic that is of little interest to the mainstream, who have important concerns. There will always be males and females, despite the rantings of minorities and oddballs; despite any man-made legislating and kow towing to oddballs. You are what you are born, and that's that.

No matter how much the likes of Rodney Croome squeal, no matter what petty, meaningless 'victories’ they have, nature cannot be changed. Nor can the minds of sensible people be changed.

Trump got elected because of a faulty electoral
system that badly needs fixing in the US. Hilary
Clinton got much more of the popular vote. The
entire electoral process was insane. And hopefully
will eventually get fixed.

One of the major prerequisites for democracy is a
toleration of criticism and of dissenting opinions. This
is fundamental to democracy. Governing parties must resist
the temptation to equate their own policies with the national
good, - or they will tend to regard opposition as disloyal or
even treasonable.

Similarly, democracies must avoid the danger of the "tyranny
of the majority." In some cases the democratic process may
work in such a way that a small minority is rendered
permanently powerless. For groups in this position, democracy
might as well not exist, and it is important that governments
should recognise the grievances of minorities that have
little political clout.

If the losers in the political process do not accept the
legitimacy of the process under which they have lost , they
may resort to more radical tactics outside the institutional
framework.

cont'd ...

Actually, change is the only constant in life.
By evolving and changing we grow as human beings.
For example, John Paul II and Benedict XVI were
both immensely impressed with the rigidity of thought in
Cardinal Pell. Pope Francis takes a rather different view -

"Behind rigidity something always lies hidden. In
many cases a double life."

The world is now shocked that a little over 20 years
in Pell's first months as archbishop of Melbourne this
supposedly pillar of society was forcing choir boys to
suck his penis.

cont'd ...

There should be a conscience vote on transgender reform
so that we are all treated with respect and dignity.
Surely that's the kind of society most Australians
want to live in.

We've had the voluntary postal survey and the overwhelming landslide result! The proposed legislation is both cruel and heartless and blatant persecution of a minority!

Because the ignorance personified, Homophobes, mistakenly believe it will play well in upcoming elections!? [If the cap fits?]

Voters will reject this and those right-wing conservatives like Cardinal Pell, and REMEMBER that ultra-conservative cohort that stood with him and where it counts!

ON POLLING DAY AND AT THE BOOTHS!

Instead will likely galvanise young voters and get them on the roll and vote this inhumane injustice down! As it should be in the land of the fair go!

FOOLS NEVER EVER LEARN!
Alan B.

'Trump got elected because of a faulty electoral
system that badly needs fixing in the US. '

Oh Foxy given up on the Russian collusion. You regressives are pathetic.

runner,

I've lived and worked in the United States for close to ten
years. I am familiar with their electoral system having
lived through various elections. It seems to me that
you take any opinion expressed about Mr Trump as a
personal attack and you then make any comment personal
by resorting with more attacks. Russian collusion?
That is still pending and under investigation. As for
my being a "regressive?" What on earth do you mean by
that? Compared to what? Your own political stance and
agenda?

Well I identify as an ‘Attack Helicopter’, I want the government to build heli pads everywhere I might go!!

This really is a joke. The author needs to get back into his box,
Galen

The Liberal candidate gained more primary votes than the elected member for Wentworth. But our faulty system of prefential voting saw a less popular candidate take the seat.

Having read Rodney Croome I was entirely in agreement with him. His argument is about human rights, and no matter how small the minority they have rights too. Reforming this area is entirely consistent with liberal values. It is a reform long overdue. As a liberal party member I wish him every success.

"Trump got elected because of a faulty electoral system that badly needs fixing in the US. "

The system produced a result Foxy doesn't like...therefore...the system must be changed.

Over on the Pell page..."He's gone through our legal process and has been found guilty."

The system produced a result Foxy does like....therefore...we all need to just accept it.

Is it just me or is there a whiff of double standard there.

People who must vent their spleens against Donald Trump every time they have a bad day should realise that the U.S voting system is the same for Democrats as it is for Republicans. We don’t hear this silly whining about a ‘faulty’ voting system when the Democrats win.

We should not be hearing this silly whining at all in Australia. America has a far bigger population than ours, with far, far more excellent brains, all seemingly happy with their system.

Even if they are not, I don’t think anyone in America is much interested the opinions of a pip-squeak poster in a country which has compulsory voting.

Southern Sceptic,

There has to be a limit to pandering to minorities in a democracy. Majority rule, remember? You might have your own private reasons for supporting Croome, but I doubt that gender-bending is a ‘right’. It might be consistent with ‘liberal’ values but not, I think, with Liberal values. If it is the latter, that will be one of the reasons that the Liberal party is going down the gurgler. You say that you are a ‘liberal party member’, but you don’t use a capital ‘L’, suggesting that either you don’t have much respect for the party you claim to be a member of; you are not a member of the party or, you are one of the members of the party who wants the Liberals to become small ‘l’ liberals, which the rats now leaving the sinking ship have already done a good job of moving it that way.

I like reading Foxy's contributions, because she is so funny. She just can't see the contradictions in her own logic.

Foxy starts of by telling us that one of the "prerequisites for democracy is a toleration of criticism and of dissenting opinions." OK girl, we are tolerating the opinions of these people. Ttbn and me not asking for biologically impossible "transgender " people to be jailed or shut up. Quite the contrary, it is the spokesperson for these "transgender" people who is demanding that the majority shut up. He supports extending the Tasmanian Human Rights legislation to extern beyond protecting races and ethnicities from hurt feelings, to so called "transgender" people.

This is on top of moves to extend protections on hurt feelings to Muslims, although presumably not to the Catholics who Foxy apparently despises. This is the one of the tactics of the left. Demand Human Rights for everybody, and then figure out how to do a bit of mission creep and extend it to every minority they seem to be enamoured with, and to hell with the majority.

Foxy's claim that Human Rights is to protect the minority from the "tyranny of the majority." Which if she ever thought to think beyond her slogan she would realise that in a democracy, that is just simply idiotic. What does she prefer, the tyranny of the minority instead? Well happily for Foxy, there is no end of countries on planet Earth where the leaders think just like Foxy does. Although strangely, she prefers not to live in them.

Abraham Lincoln noticed that there seemed to exist in US society people who always took the minority view over the majority, as their default position. Abe quipped "Is the majority always drunk?"

Foxy goes on to tell us how change is automatically a good thing. The Germans changed in 1932 from democracy to a nationalist form of socialism. Did that improve things for them? How about the changes in North Korea and Cambodia? Things changed in Venezuela and 3 million people have fled the joint

Sorry Rodney: Transgender is a fabricated illusion.

"There are 37.2 trillion c8ells in your body.”
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/there-are-372-trillion-cells-in-your-body-4941473/

“In humans, each cell normally contains 23 pairs of chromosomes, for a total of 46. Twenty-two of these pairs, called autosomes, look the same in both males and females. The 23rd pair, the sex chromosomes, differ between males and females. Females have two copies of the X chromosome, while males have one X and one Y chromosome.”
http://www.ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/basics/howmanychromosomes

Read the many stories of transgengers who have regretted their transition.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition

Preferably read it asap before the LGBT Wikipedia editors (once again) remove these stories.

Foxy.
Don't know why you bother luv. Casting your pearls before these oink oinkers?

As always your logic and eyewitness accounts fall on the deaf ears of willfully blind ideologues. Unchangeable in their rigidity!

Pope Francis reportedly notes that Pell is very rigid (CC SSM etc.) and that rigidity hides something? A double life perhaps? And I paraphrase.

Vociferous in their megaphone condemnation of S.S.M., C.C., gender equality etc-etc.

One also notes that closet gays/pious hypocrites are the loudest in their denial of homosexuality as a normal human aberration. And butch it up to the max!? As they deny their own sexual nature?
Cheers, Alan B

«They had their identities and rights demonised during the postal survey.»

Perhaps rights, but identity? What's this nonsense?!

Identity means that two mentioned things are in fact one.
Sexual/gender proclivities are a property of our bodies, brain, hormones, genetics, environment, etc.
Yes, we are somehow mysteriously related to our bodies, yet we are not our bodies, hence it is gravely mistaken to equate our body's properties with ourselves.

Otherwise, I agree with the article that the state should not register our body's gender (I would go further and claim that it has no right to register our birth to begin with, but that's for another day). It could perhaps have been previously justified on the grounds that sexual organs can help identify criminals (and then the mental attitude about gender wouldn't matter anyway), but in the age of biometry this has become obsolete, no longer an excuse.

Wikipedia detransition stories just removed.
Michael Berke (born 1964) lived as a woman and became famous for having switched back to being a male after his/her involvement with a mega church.[22]

Since 2011, Walt Heyer has written several books on his experience of regret and detransition.[23]

In June 2015, US-based Vocativ (then an online newspaper) profiled Joel Nowak. Nowak identified as a woman for ten years, including a legal change of name, hormone therapy, and surgery, before re-identifying as a man. Nowak described long feeling "closeted" and in denial about his doubts of transition. He described detransition as feeling "liberating", and he expressed hope for topics of gender to move beyond dogmatism.[24]

Zahra Cooper, 21, spent almost a year on testosterone treatment and had been living as a man for three years when she decided to go back the gender assigned to her at birth in April 2017.[26]

In September 2017, the Australian 60 Minutes television program featured a 12-year-old boy who had undergone hormone replacement therapy for two years before deciding to stop. Both he and his mother stated they did not regret transition, nor have they regretted detransition.[27]

Also in September 2017, British daily paper The Guardian published an interview with Elan Anthony of Ohio. Anthony lived as a transgender woman for two decades, including undertaking hormones and surgery, before detransitioning. He described a well-intentioned but misguided rush to transition from doctors and allies. In detransition, he lost friends, and he developed a renewed sense of shame. He has since pursued advocacy work for detransitioners, and he has begun work toward a doctorate in psychology.[28]

Max Robinson began transition at age 15, including hormones and surgery. Three years later, she began to detransition. She has since re-identified as a bisexual woman. She has now blamed her gender dysphoria on her anxiety and depression, and she has now believed her therapist overlooked "the possibility that her mental health problems, far from being symptomatic of gender dysphoria, could actually be the cause of it."[29]

PLUS MORE ALSO REMOVED.

Foxy, if you want to walk around with a teapot on your head, then do it. There is no law against that. But everybody in the population except for teapotters will think that you are nuts.

Now, you like "change" and perhaps you would like everybody walking around with teapots on their heads? Or at least change societal values so much that people walking around with teapots on their heads are "accepted".

Good luck with that. Because it just isn't going to happen. If you walk around like that, people are going to laugh at you and think that you have psychiatric problems. But if teapotters complain and demand that the Human Rights mob declare them an oppressed minority, and demand that the HR mob prosecute the rest of the population for thinking you lot are crazy, then all that is going to do is make the rest of the population very angry at teapotters.

Governments can not legislate what is right and wrong without recourse to public opinion. This is especially so if the values that the government is demanding the majority accept, are completely at odds with what the majority considers right.. The only way that the government can enforce these new moral values is through repression.

When the majority become the oppressed, you have the makings of a popular rebellion. That is why we have a democracy. If teapotters like yourself think that bizarre behaviour should always be considered normal then try and convince the public of that.

But you can't, and you know you can't. That is why teapotters like yourself support Human Rights organisations. Because the HREOC organisation is an unelected arm of government with authority. And it can always be stacked by teapotters who can then by pass the people's parliament. Democracy for teapotters is a real inconvenience to the sort of Brave New World they dream about but have never been able to acheive without firing squads and gulags

Minorities have no special rights or special place in society. They may do whatever is legal in their private lives, if it doesn't impact on the rest of society; but in their day to day existence, they must comply with majority rules. The rest of us don't have to take any notice of them at all if we are not interested in them. They gain nothing by trying to advertise themselves all the time.

I like your 'teapot head' analogy, LEGO.

Dear Ttbn,

Your above statement regarding minorities is dangerous: please note that I am departing from the topic and not referring particularly to sexual-orientation minorities - I hope it never personally happens to you, but you too could one day find yourself in the minority on some issue or another that could be very important for yourself, perhaps even more important than your life. You might then scream in agony, but have the majority disregard, laugh and mock you, pointing at your own comment above.

Societies COULD have legitimately suppressed minorities in the way you suggest IF participation in those societies was voluntary/optional. The problem is, that as it stands this is not the case, thus what you get at the bottom line is that some arbitrary group of people oppresses others who never wanted or agreed to have anything to do with them. This is wrong, this is sheer violence, this certainly cannot be classified as "liberal".

Applying the above principle to the topic at hand, had people not been ordered to begin with, essentially at gun-point, to report the birth of their offspring to the state, then people would have no grounds to later complain that the state documents them inflexibly as "male" or "female": if you don't want your children harshly gender-classified, then simply never even inform the state that they were born, let them not become part of the surrounding society, end of story!

@LEGO, Thursday, 14 March 2019 6:16:50 PM

Don't be so harsh with Foxy, I have my suspicions she's a blonde.

@Alan B.,Thursday, 14 March 2019 10:39:45 AM

"FOOLS NEVER EVER LEARN!" - Strong truth. I recommend you take heed.

And as for the Rodney thread, I have no problems with trannies. The few I've met seemed like quite nice people. But I don't see any reason why they should be granted more or less privileges/rights than me or anybody else.

And last, off topic, one for the fellas, have a laugh, YouTube, just takes 30 seconds - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjFcEvTl1NQ

Disclaimer: I do not have any affiliations with Ultratune

I've been embracing change since a very young age.
During my journey in life change has been a constant.
I've lived in many countries, changed schools, had
different careers and even left a very good job to
do what made me truly satisfied and happy.

I've found that change has brought me personal growth.
I've learned new things with every change. I've
learned flexibility - change has made it easier for me
to adapt to new situations. I've been able to improve
things in my life as a result of change. I've learned
with change that over some tough periods I've become
stronger. In other words change has given me new
opportunities, new beginnings, new challenges.

But hey - those who prefer routine and inflexibility -
go for it. Personally I'd find the same old same old -
rather dull and boring.

As for wearing a teapot on my head? Funny that should be mentioned. I've got a very diverse collection of hats -
which I inter change regularly. I would love one crafted
as a tea-pot. So would the kids in my Story-time sessions.

Talking about change - take a look at the diversity of this
country. Change has made it the vibrant society that it is
today and the envy of the world. That's why so many people
want to come here.

Regarding law reforms as far as the Gay community is concerned?
These have been slow in happening but they have happened.
Change has occurred. I believe it was South Australia
that became the first state or territory to legalise sexual
conduct between males. Then in 1973 the Australian Medical
Association removed homosexuality from its list of
illnesses and disorders. Other states repealed their laws
between 1976 and the 1990s.

In Dec. 2017 the same-sex marriage ballot resulted in 61.6%
voting "Yes"in favour of legislation and The Marriage Act was
amended.

I've noticed so many posts here on "unsuccessful" stories
about transgender people. There should be a balance being
presented here so just to even up the score here's a link on
one such case:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/cate-mcgregor-on-leaving-malcolm-mcgregor-behind-and-becoming-a-woman-20140224-33d40.html

Dear AlanB.,

Some people tend to think in terms of general categories
if only to enable them to make sense of our world by
simplifying its complexity. Whilst others have a
distinctive set of traits, including conformity,
intolerance, and insecurity.

They tend to be anti-intellectual, and are disturbed by any
ambiguity in sexual or religious matters and they see the
world in very rigid and stereotyped terms.

Alan, I appreciate your comments and support.

Thank You.

Hahahahahahahahaha! Stop it, Foxy, you are killing me.

First you categorised "some people" by saying that such people think in general categories.

Then you stereotyped "others" by giving them what you see as their stereotypical traits, including "conformity", "intolerance"," insecurity" "anti Intellectual" "rigid" and "disturbed by any ambiguity in sexual or religious matters."

OK, fairs fair. If you are gunna stereotype me, then I will retaliate and stereotype you.

How about there are "some people " who really do think that they are morally and intellectually superior to everybody who does not belong to their tertiary educated cast? They have a tendency to make badly thought out statements which are contradictions in themselves? They have a compulsive psychological need to think they are the saviours of the world? They will seize upon any wacky cause that is not mainstream just to show how different they are, and also to display their social separation from the rest of their community, whom they despise for not appreciating their astounding intelligence? They reflexively seize the high moral ground in every argument without considering whether they are sky lighting themselves into perfect targets? They can only see the world in terms of oppressors and oppressed? They never stop attacking their own civilisation which they choose to live in?

This is the story of a small green farm, with a
LARGE pink problem.

The problem is a pig with attitude - but he's known as Grunter
because that's what he does!

He hates everything and everyone ...
He is overfed and over weight.

He is mad, bad, ANGRY, and sad.
(and dangerous to know on days with a "d" in them).

He has serious attitude ...

And shocking wind.

Yesterday he flattened the farmer, spat on the cat,
dunked the dog, catapulted the cow and mashed three-short
sighted mice into the mud.

The day before, he bit the badger, grabbed the goat
and chocked the chicks with one of his outbursts.

He ran AMOK in the muck, sat on the sheep and dropped something dirty on the duck!

You get the picture. Well this pig gets taught a lesson.
Don't be a Grunter - be nice of else ...

Nobody likes a "breath of foul air!."

If you want to read this explosive story - it's available
at your local library. It's by Mike Jolley and is highly
recommended for insecure people who have the compulsion
to stoop to personal insults on discussion forums.

Cheers.

To Foxy.

Sorry I missed your previous post on the preceding page, I was so amused by your last "stereotype" post, that I couldn't wait to refute it

Your last post was a very poor attempt to imitate my very effective way of demonstrating the absurdity of trying to advocate that tiny minorities should have the right to tell majorities what to do.

Your last post seems to advocate that "change" is always a good thing. That is complete rubbish. Change can be for the good or the bad. I even gave you four examples where political change was catastrophic for the welfare of entire nations. Whenever change is contemplated, it is usually when a previous system is malfunctioning to the extent that a majority of people begin to think that there may be a better way, and they submit scenarios and arguments as to why a new approach is better.

That has not happened with "transgender" rights. People who wish they were another sex to the one they were biologically born with, represent a microscopic proportion of the population. They can try to tell the rest of us that sex is "fluid" but the rest of us find that proposal more worthy of hilarity than serious discussion. But then we have people like yourself who, unchangingly always take the side of the minority against the majority.

By making "transgender" rights yet another crazy proposal of the loony left, you are in fact doing the right side of politics a great service. Because by identifying the left with the cause of "transgenders", who the overwhelming majority of people think are just nutters, you are displaying to the public just how crazy the left itself is.

Keep up the good work.

This is especially so when the left tries to use organisations such as the HREOC to force the majority to bow to the demands of a microscopic crazy minority. The public is sick of this, and that is one reason why the electorate is turning to the right.

LEGO,

You don't know anything about me. It appears that
I've hit a nerve. I do not wish to argue with
you - there's no point. My initial response
to Alan B., was not directed at you. Yet you
assumed it was and you've gone on to prove the
points I made.

Australia is not turning to the right as you claim.
Same sex marriage has been legislated. Young
people are demonstrating in our cities for climate
change action. Cardinal Pell one of the Catholic
Church's most powerful leaders has been tried and
found guilty by a jury of 12. MPs are leaving the
Liberal Party in droves. Labor was re-elected in Victoria
and so it goes. Change is happening all around us
whether you and I like it or not - is irrelevant.
It will continue despite what any of us may think.

I did not say that all change was good. Nor that all
people are good. It seems to me that your strawman
arguments are a sign of desperation or frustration.
Anyway, be that
as it may - I'll leave you to your disgruntlement.
Have a nice day.

Hi Foxy, you don't know anything about me either, but it did not stop you from publically stereotyping your opponents (of which I am one) to Aiden. And you did that after implying that stereotyping was a characteristic of right wing people. I hope you learned something, Foxy. Everybody stereotypes.

Australians did vote for homosexual "marriage", much to the surprise of the left and the homosexual community, who opposed the vote. It just goes to show how our successful our schools have been in indoctrinating the youngest generation, Hitler Youth style, into accepting this nonsense.

Which is exactly what happened with the school children's "strike" against Human Induced Climate Change. Nobody seriously believes that the kids thought it up themselves. They were indoctrinated into this false ideology, Hitler Youth style, and encouraged to go by the long haired men and short haired women of the education department.

Meanwhile, despite pouring ever more money into Education with no tangible benefits in terms of examination results, Liberal governments now know that money can not fix a system broken by left wing ideologues who are good at indoctrinating children with their political and social beliefs, they just can't teach them how to read, write, spell, or do simple sums. Even the poorly funded education systems of third world countries are doing better than Australian kids. Thank you again, socialism.

Yes the Victorian population (our most left wing electorate) voted in a Labor government again, a government which blows up power stations and got the whole state blacked out. I wonder how many Victorians, sitting in their blacked out homes, rued the day they ever voted for Labor? And every time some imported Sudanese attack Victorians and they complain, I say "what are you complaining about? You voted Labor, you deserve it.

Re-runs clearly show that Anning slapped the brat wih his open hand. Now, invertebrate, Morrison says that Anning should be chased to the "full extent of the law". Its ok to egg people, though.

Another invertebrate, the immigration minister has cancelled Milo Yiannopolous's visa to speak in Australia this year because he said that the attack on the NZ mosque was triggered by modycoddling Muslims and lefties, or words to that effect.

No matter how wrong or silly those remarks might be, the immigration minister and,therefore, our government, are opponents of free speech, which many of us had already suspected.

Onya ttbn

I am glad that Milo has been banned. Conservatism is the new punk. Leftists are the new moral puritans, using force and repression to prop up their failing status quo ante. It is now cool to be a conservative. Even Johnny Rotten is on our side.

Aux barricades!