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So the cat’s out of the bag ! Thanks to the video posted by Toni Lavis we can see and hear Madeleine on YouTube telling us, in the opening lines of her testimony :

« I accidentally got pregnant at 18, and in the midst of confusion and shock, I chose to have an abortion, but I’m not sure it was choice to be honest, because no other options were really given me. I wasn’t overtly coerced or threatened, but I was certainly not empowered to make an informed decision »

The video was posted on YouTube on the 15th August, 2016 by the Pro-Life organisation, Cherish Life, previously known as Queensland Right to Life.. In addition to that, Madeleine gave a speech to a Rally for Life in Toowoomba on 26 September 2018. The article posted here on OLO on the 18th October is presented as an abridged version of that speech – though, as we can see, the opening lines of the 2016 speech are quite different from those of the OLO article.

So, as far as we know, there are (at least) four different versions of her speech in three different media (2 live rallies, YouTube, and OLO). Naturally, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it is more than just testifying at “one rally” as BigAlOz persistently maintains.

Madeleine’s implication with the Pro-Life movement is obviously far more important than BigAlOz is prepared to admit.

I do not doubt Madeleine’s sincerity but, seen in that light, the picture is completely different from the one we were led to believe initially.

The following passages on YouTube are quite revealing :

« … when mothers don’t feel free to speak openly to their daughters, and professionals cannot be relied upon to speak the truth, vulnerable women like me are … not free to choose »

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(Continued …)

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« … several years later [after the abortion], while studying anatomy and physiology, I was shocked to learn that at 8 weeks pregnant when I aborted, the “baby” [foetus] would have been three centimetres long and every organ not functioning, its heart beating, therefore what I was told was wrong and the discovery horrified me. I’ve heard other women … »

As Madeleine says, she is “vulnerable” and, apparently, also, impressionable as well as influenceable. By putting two and two together, it seems more than likely that at least some if not all of the “other women” she refers to are somehow connected to the Pro-Life movement as well.

It is obvious that Madeleine’s discourse and the discourse of the Pro-Life movement dovetail perfectly. No doubt that is why the movement actively promotes it.

I sincerely feel sorry for Madeleine and hope that she will one day manage to distance herself from all these outside influences and develop sufficient self-confidence in order to be able to make her own, truly independent decisions.

Perhaps psychotherapy might be of some assistance in this endeavour. If it could at least put an end to her suffering that would already be a positive result.

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To Foxy.

I hope you would give a pregnant teen several options to consider, aside from abortion. Though the article you gave was lengthy it gave only three basic options for what to do, and focused a good deal on how hard it will be to keep the baby, which really means that it's pushing for the option to abort. If it wasn't trying to pressure for abortion but to make the teen aware of the difficulties then there would hopefully be both what the teen needs to prepare for, and some direction on how to prepare for it.

Here's what I'd like to see happen, or something I hope I would do if in the situation to give advise.

1). Have the options available to show the teen. Agency contact numbers for both adoption and abortion organizations. As well as a few questions on the girl's life situation to gauge if she has outside support if she decides to keep the baby and raise him or her. With this the girl can leave with more options and direct access to be able to accomplish the option she chooses.

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2). The harsh reality of what it means to raise the baby, abort the baby, or give the baby away. But along with those thing to prepare her with, also give her what she would need to know to make it through those things. For aborting the baby, really let her know what that means. It's not just a collection of cells. This option should not be an easy decision to agree to, but a last option because of what it means she is doing. For holding onto the baby , the reality of what happens while being pregnant should be given, and what she will need to give up (drugs, drinking, anything else) as well as what she should prepare for to do while pregnant. That way if she does keep the child to raise herself or adopt, then she has the path laid out on what to expect and how to accomplish this. Same with giving up the baby or raising the baby, what to expect and how to prepare for it.

3). If it's possible, have a candid conversation on how she became pregnant. A conversation on her current choices and on seeking healthy (and hopefully lasting) relationships. Basically a reality check on giving giving themselves up to some who wants to have sex with them, verses good characteristics to look for in a boyfriend. If there is an issue with drugs or alcohol then address that too. Regardless what she chooses for the baby she is pregnant with, what she does from there different from how she got to this point is important. Having safe sex and how to not get into this same situation is worth mentioning if it's possible to do so.

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Those three things aren't what I expect everyone to be able to do for giving advise, but they are what I think the medical practitioners should already be doing for the girl. They should be aware of the options and give out how to deal with each. Instead of explaining what will be the issues with keeping the baby and only laying out the path for abortion.

Banjo, there’s no cat and no bag!

As you know, at the end of Madeleine’s article on On Line Opinion appeared these words: “This is an edited version of Madeleine Weidemann's speech to a Rally for Life in Toowoomba on 26 September 2018.”

That she also told her personal story at a forum in a different campaign against the Pyne abortion Bills two years earlier (which is on YouTube) does not make her a pro-life activist.

There are NOT, as you claim, “four different versions of her speech”. There were two separate speeches two years apart, but very similar as would be expected given they are on the same subject matter.

Her consistent message is a warning that abortion can harm women and is not the quick and easy fix that it is made out to be, as well as a call for legislative safeguards such as informed consent requirements and independent counselling to screen against coercion.

Your attempts, and those of Toni, to discredit her because her message undermines the feminist propaganda that abortion is “safe”, are a disgrace.

I reiterate my challenge to you both to inform yourselves of the health risks of abortion to women, by going to www.realchoices.org.au. Also read this article about the experience of many feminists who make a rational decision in line with their values to terminate an inconvenient pregnancy, but who are blindsided with unexpected grief - see https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2010/09/1657/

And watch the award-winning documentary Hush (with a pro-life producer and a pro-choice director, who is still pro-choice at the end of the project but firmly in favour of a woman’s right to know). This film interviews leading advocates on both sides of the abortion debate and can be seen at http://hushfilm.com/

Finally, I challenge you to find out what you are supporting by watching this 5 minute video of former US abortion provider Dr Anthony Levatino testifying about the technique for performing a mid-trimester abortion before the US House of Representatives Judiciary Committee. Note this is only a verbal description. No animated or real video of an abortion is shown. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZXQBhTszpU