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Dear Runner,

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I thought I should mention that, in addition to being a brilliant (and, apparently, “divinely inspired”) neurosurgeon, I find Dr. Ben Carson (whom you quoted in your previous post) not only intelligent but also very sympathetic and full of good sense.

He was, of course, profoundly and indelibly marked by his modest origins and the Seventh-day Adventist religious beliefs he inherited from his mother – both of which have inspired him and illuminated his vision all his life.

Though, I do not, to even the slightest extent, share his hard right (pro-Trump) political ideals nor his biblical literalism (fundamentalism), that does not prevent me from understanding and admiring him as a person.

He strikes me as being a good man.

Nevertheless, it also occurred to me that you might be interested in the following articles which illustrate (with supporting citations) that, "according to the bible, a foetus is not a living person with a soul until after drawing its first breath" :

http://www.thechristianleftblog.org/blog-home/the-bible-tells-us-when-a-fetus-becomes-a-living-being

http://emerald7tfb.wordpress.com/2011/05/22/abortion-and-judeo-christian-religion/

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NNS,

I don't think that anyone on this discussion is
"pushing" for abortion. Merely trying to discuss
all the issues surrounding this very complex
subject - and attempting not to be judgemental.
I imagine that having to make this sort of a
decision would be extremely difficult - and the
person/persons having to make this sort of a
decision certainly deserves support, empathy,
compassion, and understanding.

To Foxy.

Look at the article again. Madeleine felt that she was pushed to choose to abort. It's a central point to the article. I don't mean that people here are pushing for abortion to be chosen, (though for some I suspect that they do). However I'm sure this is a common occurance. Family, and medical staff try to push the option that they think is best for the girl who's pregnant instead of informing her enough to not later regret her decision.

That point is not addressed in the conversation that followed the article. If having the choice really is about leaving it up to the woman, then this should be a bigger issue to those who say that it's the woman's choice.

Does that clear up the confusion?

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According to Christian doctrine, the authors and editors of the Bible were led or influenced by God to such an extent that their writings may be considered the word of God. They are sacred texts which some believe to be infallible and to be taken literally.

Despite that, the Bible’s authors and editors knowledge of nature and natural phenomena was limited to that of their epoch – much of which later became obsolete as new evidence was brought to light and scientific progress was made.

Scientists now estimate that planet earth formed about 4.5 billion years ago, with life first appearing around 3.5 billion years ago. Recent research suggests that human and chimpanzees’ genes split about 13 million years ago marking the beginning of human life – which has been relayed from generation to generation ever since.

A number of biblical texts describe life as being given (to individuals) by a “breath of air”. If this were so, a foetus would not be a living person with a soul until it emerged from the womb of its mother as a baby and took its first breath of air. Logically, then, the abortion of a foetus would not be the suppression of a living person.

However, the view that life begins at birth is contested by Pro-Life advocates, e.g., the student Pro-Life organisation of Princeton University in the US” contends that “a human being is the immediate product of fertilisation” :

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/wdhbb.html

The (Halachic) Jewish interpretation of when human life begins is a little more complex and may be resumed as follows :

« The consensus about the time when human life really begins is still not reached among scientists, philosophers, ethicists, sociologists and theologizes … Current biological perspectives on when human life begins range through fertilization, gastrulation, to birth and even after. The development of a newborn is a smoothly continuous process » :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2582082/
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It seems to me that the Pro-Lifers’ and Jewish interpretations are more complementary than contradictory – two parts of one truth.

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NNS,

Medical practitioners (and hospitals) today give
as much information as possible to their clients
so that they can make informed choices.
Ultimately though, the final decision remains with
the patient. As far as I'm aware - no reputable
medical practitioner will push their client towards
any decision. They will give them all the information
on the options available and then leave the final
decision up to them.

'Scientists now estimate that planet earth formed about 4.5 billion years ago, with life first appearing around 3.5 billion years ago'

according the scientist who repeat lies often enough that people are to dumb to question. Its gone from a couple of million years from when I was young to 4.5 billion. You really have to be daft to swallow this stupidity and very willing to accept pseudo science.