I've commented before. I'm in pain - sometimes very bad - from cancer. Ok death would be a relief when the pain is bad. Other times it's Ok and as said, I'm drinking better wine (and less). As I am bed bound I can't even venture to the kitchen to get a knife! BUT I have NO desire to die yet. I want a 'Lonely Planet' guide to the next life. And as I approach the time for the next big journey in my existence things do get clearer about what is possibility going to occur. So at some point matching fear and pain will tip towards an exit strategy. As to killing 'bad' people because they broke some law. No I think very wrong. To take a common occurrence ...at the end of a war traitors become heroes. But I have come across people who are so aggressively, uncontrollably ugly and dangerous ,,, what does one do? They can be danger to anyone who comes near them. I would not make a decision - but others might.

As a person who nursed the dying for years, I totally support the right to die. It is a fact that euthanasia has been happening in hospices and nursing homes all along. I have seen it. When my turn comes, if suffering an incurable and/or painful condition, I will decide when I have had enough. My life, my property.

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Dear Yuyutsu,

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Thank you for that clarification.

You are right in thinking that I fully agree with your initial statement (“The freedom to live cannot be separated from the freedom to die - otherwise it is a farce and not a freedom at all”), but not with your caveat (“… only by being allowed and able to die, one can accrue the merit for choosing to live anyway, despite all pains”).

In my experience, there are some “pains” that are so excruciating that they are unbearable, no matter how brave one may be. If they can be relieved for a time with drugs, that’s fine, but if they can’t, then our natural defences eventually make us feel like vomiting and plunge us into a coma … If there is no other issue, we may be lucky enough to escape into death – as a result of heart failure, brain stroke, etc.

I agree that most people probably “choose to live” as long as they can bear the pain, but I think we all have our limits, which is not a matter of choice. I can choose to run 100 meters in 9 seconds, but, unfortunately, I cannot. Where is the merit in choosing to run 100 meters in 9 seconds, if it is simply not possible ?

You note:

« I find the idea disturbing that a government/state could kill people against their will »

It is just as healthy to eliminate atrocious killers from society as it is to eliminate cancerous cells from a person’s body. There are 37.2 trillion cells in the human body. Oncologists can eliminate the cancerous cells to protect the life of the individual. States can eliminate all the cells of some individuals to protect society.

You are disturbed at the idea of the state eliminating atrocious killers “against their will”, but you say nothing about the innocent victims of child murder, serial killing, torture murder, rape murder, mass murder, terrorism, and premeditated murder, carefully planned and executed.

That is atrocious death ... not gentle euthanasia by the state !

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To Banjo Paterson. You say that suicide (by euthanasia) should be a right. Not just for the medically incurable and full of pain. I disagree completely. Suicide (by any means) is a perment solution to a tempory problem. The exception to that rule is an uncureable condition that causes great amounts of pain. Even then I would hope the struggle to be alive out shines the desire to end the pain through death.

A second thought is the hardship suicide puts the surviving community through. If looked at it from this way it isn't a victimless crime to choose to die. And it should never be allowed to choose suicide if the person's parents are still alive. Any time a parent has to see their children die (even if their children have grown up and are adults), it is a tragedy. It should never be supported as a choice while the parents are alive.

It should never be supported as a choice on any other grounds either.

How you live is a freedom with conditions to not commit crimes. To live or to die is not a choice of freedom. Unless we can choose to be born, the opposite to choose to die shouldn't be counted as an equal freedom. There is a great difference between the right to choose how to live, and the choice of whether to live or not.

Suicide is not a victimless choice.

There are some heartless B3rstards in this discussion.

David

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Dear Not_Now.Soon,

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According to the latest statistics, in 2016, about 8 people died by suicide in Australia every day. For every person who succeeded in committing suicide, there were 30 people who tried to commit suicide but failed. For many of them, it was not their first attempt.
For males, the highest suicide rate in 2016 was observed in the 85+ age group. Overall, there were three times more male suicides than female suicides. But according to hospital data, females are more likely to deliberately injure themselves than males.
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You indicated that, you consider that :

« Suicide (by any means) is a permanent solution to a temporary problem »

That is probably true in some cases, Not_Now.Soon, but it is certainly not true of the large majority of suicides in Australia. For the 85+ age group, the only future perspectives being deteriorating health, poorer quality of life, reduced autonomy and nothing to look forward to … it is probably a good enough reason for them to wish to end their lives while they are still capable of doing so.

People over the age of 85 only have a “temporary” life left to live anyway, but they prefer to end it before it gets worse. They have already had enough. They prefer to take the “permanent solution” before it is too late.
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I wonder how many of the nearly 3 000 people who will hang or poison themselves, cut their veins, throw themselves off buildings, or lie down on railway tracks this year (in 2017) would prefer to die peacefully, calmly and painlessly in a warm, cosy environment … if that were possible !

Unfortunately, it is not possible. The carnage will continue as long as euthanasia remains illegal in Australia.

Even the new law in Victoria, if it passes, will not help most of them have a more painless or peaceful death. Most of them are not terminally ill.

They will still have to hang or poison themselves, cut their veins, throw themselves off buildings, or lie down on railway tracks.

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