It seems many are missing the very point this article is attempting to articulate. It does have its flaws but think past them and consider the wider picture for a minute. The presence of rogue elements in a group or religion does not invalidate their whole ethos. Numbat's piece is particularly astray quoting the "hudna". Exact quotations taken out of context are misleading and mischievious. Could I really stone my neighbour because he's working on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:2)? And how about selling my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7? Surely the fundamental and extreme elements are the one's to worry about? A televangilist in the US has recently come out supporting the assasination of Chavez (Venesuela). Regardless of religion it is this sort of intolerance and hate that does the most damage. The thing we ought really to be intolerant of is intolerance itself..........not Moslems, Jews, Christians or whatever per se. That would be unaustralian!

Unconquered and Rancitas...

For two months I have been trying to find Muslims who can tell me why anybody should respect a person like Mohammud. Call me Diogenes.

When I go to Muslim sites and leave posts, they are deleted (except for Altmuslim.com). When I debate with Muslims on non-moderated public sites, they ignore me. Irfan not only ignores me, he accused me of wanting to kill Muslims.

Here we go....
Here is a story from a Hadith about Mohammud: www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html (Please read 261). Cutting body parts? Heated nails in eyes? Thirst? Sure the guy was a thief, but....

There are other stories but that one has an easy link to a Muslim group. I could have cited where Mo has a fire built on a man's chest to make him talk. Or I could have mentioned slavery, or taking captive woman to his bed, or unprovoked raids on caravans, or hundreds of executions? Its all there in your histories. And then there is the little girl playing with dolls that Mo takes to his bed. Doesn't the fact that he had special rules for himself tell you something? How can he be an "example" if you aren't permited to do what he did? Why does an "example" have to forbid criticism of his person?

So for two months I have been trying to get a Muslim to answer my question.

I understand that it can be hard for a Muslim to talk about this, but it is important. Muslims and non-Muslims are on a crash course, and this issue is part of the problem.

So, can you help me? Why should anyone respect this guy? Another obvious question is why should anybody believe or trust a group of people (Muslims!) that not only cannot condemn a slaver, murderer and torturer, but think he is a shinning example of virtue. In over 20 postings on this question, the best response was that the issue was "problematic".

John Aka Kactuz

mountebank as I said it was termed 'hudna' or/and 'taqiyya'. I would suggest that writers to this forum visit http://jihadwatch.org/ you will find it most interesting, and read the koran. numbat

Great to be back from holidays and see the same ‘loving comments’..nothing changed.

How r u BD?

Been living as an Aussie muslim since 1996 in this great country. I see most muslims like other Australians as law abiding citizens, good neighbours, hard working, watch cricket and footy, go for a weekend outdoors.

Maybe someone can tell us what is so ‘un-australian’ about the above?
The likes of Mr Stone should maybe elaborate on what values are we missing?

As for Kaktuz / numbat: reason why people won’t debate you is your funky ‘creative references’. Muslims are answering questions everyday on the Koran on Islamic websites and mosques. Hadith is different so most of it is questionable collected 200 years after the prophet Mohamed’s death.

You would also need to read credible historians work and there are many.

And why debate anyway, aren’t you happy with whatever it is you are in?

Fellow human i take your point. There is no gain in debating religious semantics from centuries ago. I also agree that the majority of muslims in Australia are model citizens, and that Islam is not inherrently a 'bad' faith.

However please see my two previous posts on this article, and explain to me why the greater, law abiding, muslim community stays relatively silent on such affronts?! For instance, how can a group of 'moderates' handpicked by John Howard (of all people) contain individuals that pedal the September 11 Jewish conspiracy theory, and proclaim Bin Laden a great man?

The writing is indelably on the wall. If muslim adults don't loudly, and unambiguously condemn such nonsense, it is their children who will be indoctrinated into believing it. This happened with horrible consequences in London, and it will happen in Australia if the status quo of indifference to, and defence of these extremist clerics continues.

To the coward who thinks I'm nasty, re-read what I posted, then tell me if any of it is wrong, and I'll happily debate you. If you can show me where I'm wrong, I'll accept, and likely start to hold your view.

This is the nature of the north-western European culture, of which I am a part. However, most of the world's other cultures, particularly Islamic cultures, there is no debate. If you don't agree with Sharia Law, you get sentenced to gang-rape by tribal elders, then stoned for adultery!

Debate me, although I suspect you will have to go away & cry as I am right.

Anyone catch Insight last night? I'll let you in on something. When that Islamic lady, the one who the racist black guy, Sheik Yassin I believe, was saying "yes sister to", she said that she has friends who come to her and say "What can I do? My daughter has an Australian friend, but I can't allow her to mix!" THIS SAYS IT ALL. I LIVED AMONG THIS COMMUNITY WHILE GROWING UP, AND THAT IS VERY COMMON. THEY THINK AUSTRALIAN GIRLS ARE SLUTS FOR NOT WEARING THE HIJAB, WE"VE SEEN WHAT THEIR MALES THINK OF OUR WOMEN, no not all, but definitely most.

I still remember when I lived at Liverpool, going to the local Westfields I would see scores of Lebanese youth hanging around the front, regularly bashing up white skips like me. I remember that when an attractive Australian young woman would walk past, they'd all run up offering their phone numbers, asking for oral sex, loud enough so passers-by could hear. Although, if a veil walked past, they'd all be quite, respectful.

THIS IS COMMON YOU FOOLS. Anyone who doesn't believe me, take your daughter down to Auburn shops, Bankstown shops, Parramatta shops, on a Thursday night, and feel the rage as you see their racism.

RACISM IS WHAT IT IS, the leftist teachers at school tried to brainwash us into believing that only whites are racist, but life has taught me that this is actually the opposite...