Talking, dead chickens, roasting on a spit. Now, there's an opening to to suggest that sanity has already left the room.

Next, another deranged person continues the 'obvious' link between Nazis and meat eaters! Just like the Holocaust, folks. And, soon we will be eating each other, simply because we eat animals put there for the purpose. Pope Peculiar also gets a mention.

It is said that 'it takes all kinds', and we certainly have them. I shan't repeat any of the awful things I've heard about Tasmanians.

oh dear, vegan's should be made to wear badges so ordinary people can see them in the street and avoid them.

I think an important life lesson for the author is available here. The second, the millisecond you find yourself wanting to quote anything that Peter singer has said, then you know you should stop what you are doing and go join a religious order and take a vow of silence.

there is noting wrong with eating meat. The way we treat, kill and consume animals particularly in the West is vastly better then they way they are treated by nature.
Generally they only people who have issues are the religious and the inner city middle class types.

I don't believe anyone connected to our food production is inherently cruel or favours cruelty! Yes from time to time one or two rogue operators are exposed putting maximised profits ahead of reasonable animal welfare? Others make a case for better land use than mere sustenance grazing? Even though such land is suitable for little else than nomadic grazing?

That said, is there a better way? Well in a word yes!

We are not assisted by a primitive and inferior, fire based management model, which even as cool mosaic burning, comes up short, when compared to much more productive, very short term, highly intensive cell grazing. Where cloven hoofs work to break up fire baked soil thus allowing rain and organic nutrient entry, where the primitive model does mostly the opposite, all while sending of annual tons of scarce virtually irreplaceable essential nutrients and trace elements skyward, to end up in polluted oceans?

Marginal land can be effectively cell grazed without fences, just by turning taps and relocating available water! And that same land can be made far more productive if used to produce salt, frost and drought tolerant native wisteria. A perennial legume that fixes nitrogen and improves soil. The bean like seed pod can be harvested to extract a very useful oil (biodiesel) content! And the ex crush material will support fed lots fish and chicken farms.

Whenever I see footage of emaciated starving sub Saharan children, I think of those dead chickens turning on rotisseries, and think how much of this valuable protein is routinely wasted. All while obsessed activists waffle on, with this over the top style commentary!

Any similarity between the horrors of Auschwitz and modern free range chicken farming is illusional and only apparent in the minds of the self deluded, moribund, machiavellian activist!
Alan B.

I agree with the thrust of this article. Although I would contest a few points in it at the extreme end; IE the debate on live cattle export, and its dealings by the Gillard nazi party in the past. That is an example of how NOT to deal with animal cruelty, which simply transmuted the object into human cruelty as the alternative.
And I don't like high profile fags, so I'll ignore the reference to Michael Kirby.
However, having worked in the rural industries for many years, and lived in the bush for most of it, what I have witnessed in animal husbandry, rarely moved under the tag of animal cruelty. The climate caused the most affliction to animal comfort. Traditional graziers were generally of the caring type.

Of course, any novice that visits the slaughter floor of an abattoir, would be justifiably horrified.
There is nothing nice about death, human or animal. Working on the slaughter floor leaves no time for emotions. The killing process must be quick and clean, to be humane.

Killing animals does strange things to some people. Aberdeen in the Hunter Valley has a classic case. A woman from the local abattoir, murdered her husband, hung his skin on the back veranda to dry, boiled up his body and fed it to her kids for dinner! It's true, it really happened!

Barbaric live finning of sharks must be stopped....speak to the grubby chines about this one!

Two references which confirm the argument of this essay:
http://www.sacredcamelgardens.com/wordpress/wisdom/observe-non-humans-and-learn
http://www.jeffreymasson.com/books/the-face-on-your-plate.html

I saw a doco t'other day explaining how whales feed during their Alaskan summer jaunts. They dive below a school of herring and, while swimming in a circle, blow bubbles. This creates a so-called 'bubble wall' which causes the panicked herring to swim in an ever tightening group. Then, whoosh, the whales devour the poor herring in one gulp. The herring then spend their remaining minutes being slowly murdered by the whale's gastric juices.

A more horrendous death is hard to imagine. Its totally unethical of the whales to treat their fellow vertebrates in this way when there's so much nutritious sea-weed available.

We need to have a conversation with the whales (who are really really smart dontcha know) and convince them to change their unethical practices. No doubt the whales beleive they have ancient rights to this practice but "There is no moral justification, only an appeal to self-interest."

If talking doesn't work we then need to mount a campaign to keep these murders away from the herring. I've got no doubt that the highly ethical vegans in our midst will be completely onside in this virtuous exploit.

Dear Scott

I didn't spend the last 200,000 years evolving to the top of the food chain to become a vegetarian.

Well Lego, that required no effort on your part at all, your parents put that effort in, and probably enjoyed the whole ten minutes of it.

But what does need to be considered, is the disregard for animal welfare in some current farming practices, as pointed out in this article!

All those lettuces lined up in a row just waiting to have their heads cut off and fed all us nasty humans.

Singer enjoys the fruits (eg his intellect) of the ten minutes of fun of his parents and the developed State that raised him, provides for him and protects him.

Many of the practical men and women who can be relied upon to provide for the Singers of the world might wonder how this obviously highly advantaged and self-entitled advantaged fellow, with his academic sinecure and privileges to enjoy and for life (his golden superannuation and protection of the society of which he is part do that), would have even survived or if he had, what diminished existence he would have led, had he been born into the lifestyle in caves he would have us all return to.

It must be feel great to be lecturing from on high, from that elevated moral platform, the hard-working herd who provide for thankless, preaching SOBs like Singer.

If he really meant what he says, he would be rejecting all of the benefits of the evolution of mammals and humans specifically and living the herbivore life, while nutting all around him (and himself if he is honest) lest over-population cause hardship to other life forms including plants.

Singer is a very clever wordsmith there is no doubting that. Or else how might he possibly justify a life living like a parasite upon other humans who must work and produce, and be practical, to carry his rear as a load as well? he is one of the sly ones isn't he? One of those who bucket the lesser mortals while demanding for government to raid their wallets to support him (and in the style he deems suited to his statue and well above the 'herd').

But he also requires that the 'herd' provide a salve for his conscience by an 'open door' to immigration and by supporting the products of the 'over-fertility' of fundamentalist and other ignorant women haters who keep their women pregnant and underfoot.

tbc..

Ah...Leo, this article was written by Scott MacInnes...just saying!

If the subject of the article was cruelty of diver dans farming practices, he shoves live homosexuals head first into a mincer on his farm, what would you say to that...blame Singer?

continued

I left the family farms behind after fulfilling the dutiful, back-breaking, risky, poorly paid and thankless (where Singer and others are concerned) roles. I have enormous respect for Australian farmers who do not deserve headmaster cuts from the cane of demoralising nags like Singer.

Where I am getting to though is what specifically are the Singers and other experts here doing to ensure sustainability in the broader sense? Farmers are castigated for the efficiency forced upon them (and challenges accepted), but they are not the ones dumping thousands of new never-working migrants (and their rellies to come!) outside 'Wonderful Centrelink' every year. Also, farmers and Australian business generally are forced to compete with low labor cost countries where workplace health and safety, 'positive' affirmative action 'initiatives' and prayer rooms for the single Muslim on staff, and so on are not a consideration and never will be.

What about the shopping baskets of pensioners and low income earners, young people in the now casualised jobs that may or likely may not be there tomorrow? Will the well off, cosseted academic who says that a human child and the disabled have no more right to life than a dog, be dipping into his pocket to provide cheap protein for the aged and those on low fixed or uncertain incomes? Hell no! That always falls into the category of 'someone else's problem'.

What about some solutions that are practical and operate at a higher level? For example, why are young Australian workers who are themselves putting off having children (and so often too late) being required to fork out millions as aid to countries where women have no reliable cheap contraception nor free abortion on demand? Then the same Aussie workers are required to stump up again for the economic migrants who lob here expecting citizenship and travel back home to import some claimed relatives too.

Obviously Singer is no fool, but he could come unstuck bluffing the public into the vegan lifestyle.

diver dan,

I believe my posts are well targeted.

If the bubble-wrap tree ceased to produce. If food stores disappeared. If Centrelink slipped beneath the earth.

It is unthinkable, right?

Similarly, if the people who tend to the every need of Singer and ors in the premium airport lounge and those who keep that plane aloft for them were to quit?

'Dissing' the plebs is a rather enjoyable game for the leftist academic elite and their 'enviro-conscious' useful idiots - who in their turn also need the 'bovine punters', the public and farmers too, to look down on.

But at the end of the day it will never be any of them who visit the forgotten elderly in their once proud but now poorly maintained homes, where they are humiliated by not even being able to offer some bun with their kind offer of tea for any meagre help that they get.

Leo...to my mind (and on the surface of it), your appear lost in the confusion of ethics.
I think animal cruelty is not a left and right issue. Nor is it only Greens interested in the ecology of our planet. That mind-set is causing harm.
Obviously we humans rely heavily on animals for high quality protein. And there must be strict regulations on how animal husbandry, which encompasses all aspects of the animal in the process, is viewed. Nothing to do with left and right Leo.
Singer? Who gives a rats arse about him and his ability to congregate apostles to his cause. It's not the point!

On the point of the fading farmer and his dying influence; that's representative of Australia generally, in the new age. That's what is viewed as a right wing cry for white supremacy: Which it's not to my mind...it's another confused ethic and excused as an ideological stand.
These two positions are the breaking point of reasonable debate.
To dismiss the importance of a critical situation in our society as left or right blather, is damaging our resolve as a country! It's divisional and weakening the fabric of our society!

diver dan,

The author seems to think that Singer et al are relevant to his position and I am prepared to take his word for that. I have attacked Singer's rhetoric and assumptions. He has plenty of both and rarely are they subjected to scrutiny. He is more accomplished in both than our legally trained politicians.

No-one disputes that the quest for production efficiency around the world and international competitiveness including the removal of trade barriers hasn't had some negative consequences that many farmers have recoiled from and they and the remainder have called for international cooperation. That is in the hands of politicians. Singer and others might move to a higher plane and argue with them.

Farm production and business generally are replete with regulations and inspectors of every possible description. Australian farmers and business are highly regulated and highly compliant. So regulated and unprofitable that some have moved off-shore. Others will follow, while Australian farms, businesses and property are becoming foreign owned. Some politicians have a soft spot for overseas buyers, even representing their interests (as was evident with a Labor politician who was annoyed to account for 'gifts').

I repeat the rather obvious, that it is not farmers and the public who can address and correct major influences, such as population growth. On the advice of the academic elite, Australians achieved zero population growth decades ago. We have been more than generous in taking migrants. Australia cannot solve the world's population problems.

Then there is the question of priorities and simply put, the lack of interest, even contempt of activists for the welfare of the aged and other disadvantaged in the community. So I put it to you too, what are you going to provide as a viable, wholesome and appetising substitute for the cheap, first class protein that socially disadvantaged can get in Australia through (say) eggs and chicken?

What should really concern health authorities are the resultant nutrition and health problems especially affecting easily influenced and vulnerable youth and girls, of dietary choices that disregard the recommendations of the Australian Dietary Guidelines,
https://www.eatforhealth.gov.au/sites/default/files/content/n55_australian_dietary_guidelines.pdf

To Diver Dan.

Oh, you want more "effort" from me? OK, here is the full 350 word broadside.

Scott McInnes is a fruitcake. He is just another person who possesses an "absolutist" mindset, and who takes good concepts to extremes. In this case, he takes the virtue of kindness to animals and takes it to insanity. People like Scott don't just not eat meat, they are so obsessed with animal rights that they refuse to even cull the feral animals that eat the crops that they think everybody should eat exclusively. They would not even try to eradicate foxes and cats that eat native animals alive. Or eradicate the goats, pigs, and rabbits which left unchecked, would turn the whole of the continent of Australia into a desert.

His extremism is illustrated by his linking meat eaters to Nazis and abattoir workers to Auschwitz guards. He lives in a fantasy world where he actually thinks that "the overwhelming majority" of people think just like he does. That is because he lives in a bubble where the only people he relates to are people who think like he does. He is just another out-of- touch academic living in a cloistered world on a government stipend where everybody around him is obsessed with thinking that they are better than the hoi polloi.

It is hardly surprising that he lives in Tasmania, a bankrupt beggar state relying on the rest of the country to balance the books and provide them with reliable electricity. If Scott wants to eat fried yak dung for dinner tonight then bon apatite. I am going to Hogs Breath for a steak.

The western world is getting fed up of these moralising, hand wringing moral puritans trying to shove their crazy morality down everybody else's throat. Fortunately, the younger generation is waking up. Young people are naturally inclined to sneer at finger waggers like Scott. The vegetarian/vegan multicultural LGBTIWDBMSXI brigade is now a victim of their own success. You can't be the dominant culture and the counter culture at the same time. Right wingers are the new punks.

Perhaps, considering the features of our biology, we have forgotten the means by which we as a species reached our current situation. The solution may lie in being more involved with animals, rather than completely removed as the author seems to suggest. A more close and personal path is available;

If the industrialised killing of animals is so abhorrent, take responsibility for it yourself. The value of the work performed in preparing the animal for the polystyrene tray will soon become apparent.

If management of animals by agricultural practices is abominable, take the ultimate organic option and choose only wild animals, never fenced in, never provided food or water, never treated for disease, illness or injury.

In other words, take up hunting and make full use of the animal killed.

Exactly as thousands of Australians already do, without the need to rest on the crutch of poetry, novels and a lifetime's very profitable advocacy of outlandish thought bubbles.

As a footnote, let me throw a few facts into the "discussion".

We humans along with other primates, pigs and bears are omnivores, who as opportunistic eaters, survived when others couldn't via our dietary habits and the use of fire to extract more goodness from cooked carrion or meat.

The fact that our primitive forebears ate meat and or bone marrow, the reason we have a big and inventive brain.

Meat is one of a few sources of vitamin b12, the lack or shortage of which can result in some brain abnormalities?

Poor memory, incoherent circular reasoning, lack of cognitive processing, flying off the handle with little or no substantive reason, emotive overload and reasoned logic replaced by this or that obsession? Like e.g., microwaved food results in memory loss?

Microwave ovens can be harmful when leaking, but like mobile phones, not when just sitting there powered down! Any resultant magnetic field, only observable in the presence of an electrical current, traversing a live electrical circuit!

Red meat is an excellent source of also essential dietary iron! To get sufficient from a vegan diet, one would need to eat a bucket of broccoli or spinach a day!

Herr hitler was a tree hugging vegan? Who apparently had an unusual predilection for being peed upon, by young ladies?

I guess one doesn't need to be a complete fruitcake to be a meat hating vegan, but it surely has to help?

These folk need to settle down, stop trying to rule the world and just let those with a still fully functioning cerebral cortex just get on providing food for the world!

And as we do that, seek the best possible outcomes, such as eliminating methane as a byproduct of humane animal husbandry. Doable!

They would also do well to understand that a tree stores carbon whether vertical or horizontal
Alan B.

Thanks for the explanation Alan. From your post we can then assume that these weird fruitcake vegans, due to their lack of b12 become even more weird due to the lack of it. Of course we know they are in poor health because the lack of iron leads to them becoming anaemic.

I don't mind fruitcakes inhabiting the planet, but I do mind when they start pushing their tomfoolery at everyone else.

Then this garbage about animal cruelty on farms. Yes I suppose there is a bit at times, but it is more a suburban thing than a farm thing. Most farmers have put years of study into developing his stock, & their blood lines. They become very protective of that stock.

I have seen graziers crying while shooting sheep that were going to starve in a drought. I was very close to it when I had to put down my very old stallion, who had developed cancer. After 28 years, & having taught a couple of kids to ride, win nicely, & take losing happily, he was very much part of the family. 2 years later I still miss his nicker as I pass his special paddock near the house, & remember he's gone.

This bloke wouldn't know which way is up.

Have you heard about this revolutionary new method to make your child grow faster and taller?
One parent holds the baby's head, the other holds his/her legs and they pull...... Ouch!

Upon reaching a point in one's spiritual development, once ready, one will naturally stop eating meat: you can't rush it - or you will kill the baby!

I'm not against eating meat but what interests me is the fact
that humans put themselves way above animals because animals are seen to be
savage killers of other animals for food.

Well, hidden on the other side of the human curtain, we slaughter just as many animals if not more, for food.
Given that animals are very loving and caring to their families
even savage lions, is there really that much superiority between them and human beings.

I think that humans really delude themselves as to their nobility and intellectual elevation above the animals on this planet.
Add in the fact, that we are quite willing to condone the savage killing of millions of animals every year
for our consumption, there really doesn't seem to be much difference.

Dear CHERFUL,

«there really doesn't seem to be much difference.»

So true: difference between humans and other species doesn't come automatically - it requires effort.

YOU can make that difference!

If you want to talk about anyone deluding themselves CHERFUL as to their nobility and intellectual elevation above the animals on this planet, it is the greenies who do that in spades. I am sick to death of the lot of them, & this bloke is a prime example.

I have never seen a single greenie action that is not wrong, & causing undesirable results. Their whole history is of stupidity leading to unintended consequences.

I no longer have wrens, silver eyes, & a few other small birds at my bird bath, or nesting in the awful asparagus fern I have left growing, as a safe nesting site for them. Why, because those fool greenies got crows protected.

For 20 of the last 26 years there were no crows in this area. It is not their natural habitat, & there were none. However with protection they have proliferated so much they are being forced into new areas. Bet the idiot greenies think that is great.

I wonder how much longer this result will take to drive all our small birds to extinction. Crows will push through scrub that no other birds will, even Currawong to destroy the nest of these small birds, as soon as the eggs hatch.

I made plantings to encourage them, & even had blue wrens nesting in the fernery, but no more. With the arrival of the crows I have watched them diminish to where I have not seen one in 2 or 3 years. The earth would profit greatly, if we could find a way to make these damn greenies go extinct.

Thank you to all those who have made this thread so enjoyable :) God, I laughed at some of the posts !

Trying to get through to inner-city people about how the world actually works is a constant struggle: many seem to have just discovered where meat comes from, and are suddenly horrified. They probably think cabbages are assembled on belt by factory workers. Don't tell them about milk or eggs.

But I must protest about a couple of things: I've worked in a meat works and on a dairy farm. At the meat-works, the slaughtering of animals was very quick, clean and almost painless (given that it was almost instantaneous). Perhaps the inner-city people were thinking of halal killing: slowly, facing Mecca, 'letting all the bad blood out' ?

And farmers love their animals probably more than one of those dreamers, sipping their Soy Kale Lattes, can imagine. My late beloved bother-in-law, running the dairy on an Indigenous community, knew many of his cows by name and certainly he could recognise most of them, always with affection. Of course, I know it's easy to love cows, those beautiful big brown eyes, and they're so giving.

And, inner-city people, THAT's where milk comes from !

Joe

Cherful,

"Given that animals are very loving and caring to their families
even savage lions"

Very true but did you know that lions will cheerfully eat their own young?

There is much more happiness in the world because of meat eating humans.

Wow..

That pretty much sums it up.
Think I only read it because it looked to be getting a lot of responses.
Where do these animal libtards come from?