The N.E.M, national energy market, has it would seem, become an entity in its own right and able to demand compliance from rogue states deciding that they no longer want to belong with an entity, concerned solely with the profit margins, shareholders returns, CEO's salaries And board members fee structures?

In a profit first paradigm that has virtually tripled energy prices domestically by linking them to an illusionary international energy market?

And we seem to be governed by idiots living in a bubble unable to stand up for us!

We need to open up our gas fields, say the gas export industry? So they can extract a one time resource. And when it gone its gone!

Moreover Australian companies who've offshored their operations to avoid tax liabilities and or paying fair wages, are not actually Australian, any more than Hardie ferodo is! Just more hasbeens trying to trade on an iconic brand?

Energy? The simple fact is, most Australian household produce enough biological waste, to, when digested in an Aussie invented smell free two tank system, produce enough biogas (methane) to power their premises 24/7 and produce endless free hot water into the bargain! Adding in food scraps/wastage produces a salable surplus!

So we're not short of gas, just the leaders we need to get us off this foreign controlled, from you to them, money go round!
Alan B. T.B.C.

National regulator. National market. What on earth is he talking about? 'National' is something that Australia just does not do very well. On this site, we have people constantly sneering at South Australia; their states are so much better; they hope that anything that happens in SA won't 'cost them anything'.

There is no national spirit in Australia. All we have is burgeoning centralisation that doesn't take local conditions and needs into account. I'll tell you what: you lot in other states, particularly those on the east coast, can take a running jump at yourselves.

Nobody could be a greater critic of the the SA Labor government than I; but, irrespective of their suspect motive for trying to do something about our dire electricity situation, they are now trying to do something to fix their own stupidity over windmills and the stupidity of a Liberal premier, John Olsen, who sold off the generators to foreigners in the first place. If you clowns took any real notice of SA, instead of just disparaging it, you would know that, bad and all that the Labor government is, there is no alternative in the ineffectual, tired old opposition. The Liberal leader, Steve Marshall, supposed have been a 'businessman' (nobody seems to know what the business actually was) runs around looking as though he has just pooped himself, and the names of his team hardly anyone knows.

Our only hope is for Weatherill to fix his stupid mistakes of the past and get on with it. This scheme, no matter what the 'experts' and sneerers think of it, is our only chance. We do not need the advice of someone 'completing a doctorate'.

As already stated, most Australian households produce enough waste when digested, to power their premises 24/7!

Further, simple scrubbing allows this bladder stored gas (methane) to be consumed in ceramic fuel cells. This combination produces endless free hot water, plus an 80% energy coefficient; four times better than coal fired reticulated energy. Moreover, the exhaust product is mostly water vapor.

An 80% energy coefficient, means on average, around 50% of that household production (surplus) can be sold to other users.

Retrofitting homes could start a brand new industry that could put many/most former car manufacturing workers back to work in their own businesses.

So, we not only have all the gas we could ever need, all that has ever been missing is a logical rollout plan!

On another topic. The national grid has proved to be a great white elephant that has only served to allow unscrupulous foreigners to not only grab us by the economic short and curlies, but threaten this nation's best interest economic viability/economic sovereignty! They are not charitable institutions and not here for us!

I have made an irrefutable EROI economic case for thorium, but the decision makers are plainly interested in the status quo, have tin ears, live inside a bubble, just don't give a rats? Or are preoccupied to the point of indifference, with other more important, to them, issues?

Like say, life after politics as an advisor or (Benedict Arnold) consultant, with say, a foreign based energy company or some such? What other possible or even vaguely plausible explanation can there be?
Alan B.

The problem is that we (not just government, but the populace in general) fell for the proposition that we could pay homage to the great global warming monster (manbearpig) without significant cost.

RET - what could go wrong?
Shut the gate...no one was going to take to the battlements to oppose that Luddite notion.

Governments caved into the the squeaky wheel. None were punished for it and there was enough who praised the surrender to make it a national pastime.

Now the chickens are coming home to roost as was always inevitable. As the fit hits the shan, there'll be an unseemly rush to blame others and patch things long enough to get to the next election.

Meanwhile, the US is going to pullout of the Paris accord, essentially gutting it. Merkel is talking about retreating from Germany's climate fanaticism, and the great green monster is in its death throes.

At some point, we'll see a state government (or opposition) desperate enough that they'll abandon all the pretenses and get back to providing reliable power at an affordable price. Once one goes, the economic pressure on the others will be irresistable.

It'd be ironic if that catalyst were South Australia.

A step in the right direction:

It is stupid to waste that much power by sending it across such long wires rather than store it locally, but not just electrical power - also political power and orders. It is shameful and immoral to place a whole continent under one regime.

Down with nationalism: anything that starts with an 'N' should be dismantled, there are far too many of those, including NBN, NDIS and now also NEM. Batteries are great - it's one more item on the check-list that will allow independence for the states of this continent.

Funny...I always thought the 'N'-word had a different meaning.

And then we should consider this:

"Over the past few days, the world has gone gaga about Mr Musk’s plan to ‘solve’ South Australia’s energy crisis.

Musk tweeted:

‘Tesla will get the system installed and working 100 days from contract signature or it is free.’

According to ABC News:

‘In response to South Australia’s power problems, Tesla has been talking about a battery array capable of storing somewhere between 100 and 300MWh. While that’s a measure of storage, the actual output of these batteries isn’t clear.’

Sounds great. Then you look at the facts.

According to Australian energy regulator, the…erm…Australian Energy Regulator (AER), Australia’s current electricity capacity stands at a touch under 45,000 megawatts.

So if Mr Musk’s grand plan involves adding 100 to 300 megawatts to the capacity (we assume he’s talking about storage capacity), this number appears to be a rather small drop in the ocean.

And if we’re talking about output, according to the AER, Australia consumes an average of 22,000 megawatts per hour. So again, the 100­–300 MWh is hardly significant.

As a further comparison, the Snowy Hydro scheme, among its various assets (which includes hydro and gas), has 5,500 MW of capacity."

Another white elephant.

Musk is offering a half price deal to get his toe in the door. A loss leader ticket to the bigger game?

He can afford half price because he's already sucked every drop of government assistance for his Gigafactories.

The level of domestic and international subsidy of renewables is astonishing.

Geoff of Perth,
Megawatts are a measure of power, not energy, so average consumption is not "per hour".

SA usually generates between 1000 and 2000 megawatts; so it's certainly not a drop in the ocean.

I think Jeff is comparing an eastern combined blackout. To call that a drop in the ocean.
This system is for SA so that is where the story ends..
People keep trying to confuse the issue to discredit masks plan..
The man is a genius and given credit for doing something for SA. Which our federal govt can not do.

The only headache this gives the eastern states regulator is a drop in shares and sales of electricity to SA. SA has told the regulators to get stuffed we are going it alone.

I read about the Musk deal and I think it's absolutely ludicrous. But then again, almost everything he does has a little bit of crazy in it, until it works out. In any case, at least there's someone trying to do something radical about it in a way that's really going to push the industry to react. I mean, can you imagine how everyone else is going to scamper if he manages to even pull off even half of what he promises?

I think the battery deal is not what a lot of people think it is.
One of the criticisms of the SA system was that the windfarms were not
"stiff"enough or had enough momentum to enable them to sync to the interconnector.
The battery would only be needed for perhaps 10 minutes or so until
everything was up and running.

However upgrading the Snowy scheme is a different thing all together.
It would be a very valuable addition. It could be brought into action
if the wind suddenly dropped anywhere and might even be useful when
the whole east coast has a month like we have had here with no or
little solar power. Also it could supply for weeks. Even at night
it could be topped up when demand was low.

The people on the Insiders were raving on this morning showing their
ignorance of what it is all about. This is typical of almost all the
commentary that is presented to us.
They all agree that natural gas is a transition fuel but never
suggest what might be used when it runs out.
Doog still has not suggested might be used.
Lots of airy fairy schemes some of which might just work but someone
has to put a lot of money up and will want to put it into something they know works.

power

I don't care about the source of energy, but rather about its centrality. Batteries are good because they help individual states to become independent, whereas schemes like the Snowy are bad because they increase the dependence of states on Canberra.

If one day South Australia decides to have policies that are diametrically opposed to the commonwealth, perhaps even to secede altogether, having its independent energy can prevent the central regime from cutting off its power-supply in retaliation.

To cut supply from the east is certainly on the cards.. The interconnect or has a shipload of troubles and no where near perfect.. The NEM know it but do nothing..
How long will it take to dig a 27km tunnel and power stations..
Any drongo can see SA does not any assurances about anything..
Wind and solar will complete the every need we need.
The eastern states had 20 years notice of SA running out of coal.. So what did the NEM do about it.. Nought.
Good on SA for showing some courage and leadership in doing something about it.

Yuyutsu, batteries in a grid have a purpose but not as backup in any form.
Their capacity is too limited and their cost is too high.
Sth Aus's battery would keep the state going for about three minutes.
BTW, you cannot use the full capacity of the batteries as they would
deteriorate very quickly and have to be replaced. You might only get
70% of their capacity.

What the government is proposing for the Snowy is an extension of
what it does now.
It will help all states so it is fair that the commonwealth puts up the dough.
It is not a fix for SA's problem it is a long term project.
There is no solution for their present problem.
Once Hazlewood closes, if it does, things will be tight.
You just cannot remove the biggest generator from the system and
expect all to sail on no worries she'll be right mate !
It will get a lot worse when Liddel closes. Perhaps someone will
thump a politician or two and drive some sense into them.

Doog the interconnectors can have as much capacity as needed.
If losses worry some, then up the voltage. Another few hundred
million will give SA all they need, but then you seem to be one of
the fairy tale believers in 100% solar & wind.

No Doog the greens wanted the coal stations closed no matter what.
So they arranged the priority for the wind and solar and destroyed
the finances of the coal stations, so they quit.
Even if the government ran them they would either drive the govt broke
or you would not be able to pay your electricity bill.
The Greens and labour just stood around and watched them close and
cheered.

Why does Nero come to mind ?

Dear Bazz,

Thank you for the information: I am certainly not an expert regarding electrical energy and storage. So you say that batteries don't work: what you say seems to contradict what others here are saying and it's not for me to tell who is correct here.

I think that still, it's a good thing if people can be told say half an hour in advance before power is cut to save their files and shutdown their computers in an orderly fashion to prevent damage to their files, also to avoid elevators. Alternately, people can be asked in time to turn off air-conditioners and similar guzzlers so that power can continue for smaller appliances.

I am more than happy with coal, or nuclear or whatever else can generate power locally, except for wind because of the noise - unless it's very far from any homes. What I am unhappy with is the long-distance interconnects which tie the states of Australia to each other and can enslave them to the central regime, that besides the wastage of carrying electricity over long distances and the increased danger of weather and similar events cutting off that supply somewhere along that distance.

These greens must be a powerful body .. They seem to have untold powers according to some. I think that is all b..s. Hazel wood is the biggest polluter ever it's old and outdated ,and unrecoverable. The state wanted to buy hazel wood years ago and shut it down they got outbid by the frog lot..
I think your idea of a battery is what's in a car.. You best ask tesla about that.

Yuyutsu, it is pretty simple arithmetic actually.
Divide the average daily demand of Sth Aus by the battery capacity.
I do not have the figures now, but from memory it was a matter of
minutes. Then reduce the answer by 30%.
I think the battery is to be 100 megawatt/hrs. ie 100 megawatt for
1 hour or 50 megawatt for 2 hours etc.
They can turn on/off hot water heaters now and you might have in the
past heard the tones that were previously used.
The current idea is connect everything to the internet and turn air
conditioners etc off as needed.

For business, there are no break backups for their computers and
there is software that will shut the computer down in an orderly manner.
The purpose of the interconnectors is to improve reliability and save money.
Lifts are a big problem, a shutdown in a CBD means far too many lifts
per lift mechanic to expect to be released. Just sit on the floor
and explore the ideas of your companions.

Doog, yes the Greens are powerful, the Labour party depends on them
so they can defeat the government in the senate and support Labour
when in government.
They can force the Labour party to implement green policies.

Re Hazelwood, no reason it could not be kept going indefinately.
It might be cheaper to build a new station, but it could be updated
bit by bit if necessary to keep the power on.
Afterall look at all those 100 plus year old steam locos on the rails.
It is money versus sitting in the dark.

The principles of batteries are the same no matter what the size.
The rating is in watt/hrs. It is primary school arithmetic.