IS MISE...

I attended the Smith & Wesson facility in Springfield MA. While there I watched a number of precision (read 'trick' shooters) do all sorts of amazing things with their humble J frames up to and including the N Frames - You know what I took away from S&W? Precisely nothing - zip - squat ? It is for this reason our command went for Herr Glock's 'plastic 9mm's'. However VICPOL were obviously impressed, they purchased Smiths self-loaders instead (price trade-in had no bearing on their decision, like hell it didn't).

Dear AJ.

If you wish to read the AIC's whitewash of ethnic crime, look it up yourself. You probably have a copy sitting on your desk right now, but I have noted previously that you seem to enjoy making me run around the internet finding things that you already know is true. Your intent is not to promote debate but to frustrate me in order to stifle debate.

I see that three of your Sudanese victims of white oppression and "Strain theory" just stuck up a jewellery store in Toorak yesterday. I think it is great that Toorak is now getting the benefits of multiculturalism.

Here is your explanation for black crime.

"Poverty, lack of resources, religion and lack of education, cultural displacement, and low I.Q. all tend to exacerbate each other. There are multiple factors on both a micro and macro level"

Well, it sure wasn't caused by poverty, AJ. These men came from craphole of a country where the average income was about $2 dollars a week. The instant they got off the aeroplane at Tullamarine their incomes and lifestyles got a massive boost. They went from mud huts to government supplied houses and modern flats. Their incomes from Australian taxpayers made them rich beyond the dreams of avarice in their own countries. Free medical care. Subsidised bus and rail fares. Subsidised everything

"Cultural displacement"? No, "blame the white guy" won't work there either.

"Lack of education"? What's the bet these characters when they went to school were so violent that even the teachers were frightened of them? What's the bet that they disrupted the classes even when they bothered to go to school? I have a female friend who is a teacher and she got a job teaching African blacks. She once criticised me for my racism but now she confided to her sister that I was right.

"Low IQ's." You finally got it right. But then you claimed that IQ tests were inaccurate. Memo to AJ. You can't claim that IQ testing is inaccurate and then use a low IQ argument for one of your excuses.

That’s the thing, LEGO, I have and I don’t see where they claim that “all” perception of ethnic crime is media-driven or a “figment of the public’s imagination”.

<<If you wish to read the AIC's whitewash of ethnic crime, look it up yourself.>>

Looks like I won’t be getting a link to this imaginary source of yours. Nice sidestep, though.

<<… I have noted previously that you seem to enjoy making me run around the internet finding things ...>>

Only when it’s clear that you don’t have a source.

<<I see that three of your Sudanese victims of white oppression and "Strain theory" just stuck up a jewellery store in Toorak yesterday.>>

Strain theory, eh? And why did you apply that as the most relevant theory? How did you rule out rational choice theory, routine activities theory, social disorganization theory, labelling theory, social learning theory, or a combination thereof?

Which strain theory too, by the way? The original strain theory (Merton), or general strain theory (Agnew)?

<<Well, it sure wasn't caused by poverty, AJ. These men came from craphole of a country where the average income was about $2 dollars a week.>>

How do you know they weren't born here?

<<"Cultural displacement"? No, "blame the white guy" won't work there either.>>

Cultural displacement isn’t about blame. But I’ve already explained something similar to you with regards to marginalisation at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=18533#330972. It just doesn’t sink in with you, does it?

<<"Lack of education"? What's the bet these characters when they went to school were so violent that even the teachers were frightened of them?>>

Yes, that’s a good one, and your lack of argument against it attests to that.

<<What's the bet that they disrupted the classes even when they bothered to go to school? I have a female friend who is a teacher and she got a job teaching African blacks.>>

So are you saying, now, that social learning theory would be more useful than strain theory? I would agree. I’d also say that social disorganisation theory would be useful in this situation too.

Continued…

…Continued

<<"Low IQ's." You finally got it right.>>

Finally? No, we had a good one there with lack of education as well.

<<But then you claimed that IQ tests were inaccurate.>>

Yes, that’s a point. You see? You’re learning! But I also pointed out the chicken-and-egg problem too? Remember?

(You see? I told you we’d get back to your unaddressed challenges eventually! Although I didn't expect that we would get there so quickly.)

<<You can't claim that IQ testing is inaccurate and then use a low IQ argument for one of your excuses.>>

Low intelligence is still a thing, regardless of how accurate the testing for it is. Speaking of low IQ is also fine so long as you take account of the limitations of testing intelligence.

There's a difference between 'reason' and 'excuse' too. But you chose to use the word 'excuse' instead because your lack of facts requires you to keep it emotive. "Blame the white guy" is a classic example.

I think we're on a roll here, LEGO. I enjoyed that. You see how much more productive discussions can be when you quote people instead of addressing things they haven't said and then trying to pass repetition, needlessly-lengthy paragraphs, and a lack of quotes in your posts off as reasoned argument?

Keep it up ol' chap.

Some additional thoughts, LEGO.

<<… but I have noted previously that you seem to enjoy making me run around the internet finding things that you already know is true. Your intent is not to promote debate but to frustrate me in order to stifle debate.>>

Firstly, can you find one instance of me already knowing that these things were true? In every instance I can recall, it turned out that you were either wrong or you sidestepped my request somehow. Secondly, I’m sure not letting you get away with lies and distortion feels very much like I’m stifling debate. You would much prefer that I let you get away with your misrepresentations.

<<I see that three of your Sudanese victims of white oppression ...>>

More emotive language from you in lieu of facts. Since when have I ever cited ‘oppression’ as a factor?

“Oppression”. I like that. It conjures up images of hundreds of Sudanese all shackled together. Emotive stuff! It certainly makes anything I’ve said seem absurd. But that’s the whole idea, isn’t it LEGO? It’s all about style over substance with you.

Here’s a challenge: try posting for the rest of the discussion without the use of emotive language. I bet you can’t do it. I’ll count each instance of emotive language from you starting n-n-n-n-n-now…

But let’s look at this robbery for a moment. Per usual, you (emotively) made it sound like some blacks stepped off a plane and (being dumb because they’re black) started robbing jewellery stores because they were too stupid to know how to get a job or realise that crime has punitive consequences.

What you don’t realise, however, is that first-generation migrants historically have lower rates of offending than whites (probably because they’re so grateful to be here). It’s their children who offend at a higher rate than whites (for reasons we can go into later, if you’d like), so the chances that these offenders were born here and did not come from a “craphole” are high.

That being said, I guess we can’t rule out poverty/low-socioeconomic-status as a factor after all.

Dear AJ.

You can't have it both ways. Either ethnic crime is very bad, it is not media sensationalism, and it is not a figment of the public's imagination, or it is the opposite. Which way is the wind blowing for you at the moment? Whatever which way it is blowing, make up your mind and stop changing your position.

The reason I mentioned "Strain theory" is because you can always find some wacky excuse for the fact that some ethnicities are very disproportionately represented in serious crime, except the most obvious and self evident ones. You agree that crime and genetics are linked. Here is you saying just that.

"Yes, there does appear to be a genetic factor to criminality."

And.

"I don’t know why you would be surprised that criminologists recognise a genetic factor to criminal behaviour."

You admit that criminals generally have a low IQ.

"Poverty, lack of resources, religion and lack of education, cultural displacement, and low I.Q. all tend to exacerbate each other."

But when I put the facts together and point out certain ethnicities have a low measured IQ, that these same ethnicities compose the lowest and most dysfunctional socio economic group within every single white western society they inhabit, and that they are always very disproportionately represented in serious criminal behaviour, you claim it can't have much to do with genetics.

That is absurd. It is like a Creationist saying that he accepts that Earth is 4.567 billion years old, that the dinosaurs were millions of years old, but that the Earth was created in six days.

You claim that races are not equal in physical appearance and physical abilities (but you would deny that if you could), but that they are equal in personality potential and intelligence potential. Please give 350 words explaining how you know that people of different races are born totally equally in terms of intelligence. And how do you know that at birth their personalities are all equal blank pieces of paper, which are subsequently moulded by nurture into different personalities?