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The Forum > Article Comments > A world made in England > Comments

A world made in England : Comments

By Babette Francis, published 4/10/2016

So this is my first plea to our indigenous population - no matter how great your pride in your indigenous culture, acknowledge that you do not have a written language and that we live in a world made in England.

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The WINNER today , by a short beak is 'The Duck' ahead of 'runner' with daylight a distant third.
Posted by Aspley, Tuesday, 4 October 2016 12:39:29 PM
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In the context of this essay by Babette, I wonder what percentage of normal Australian people are in any sense culturally literate in the sense of being thoroughly familiar with and deeply appreciative of the great works of Western music, literature and art.
Quite small I would suggest.
And do they consistently expose them to or encourage their children to understand and appreciate this music and literature.

Or, again to they merely like the usual dreadfully sane every-person in our time and place rely on either the TV or computer (mobile phone) screen, and popular music too, to "educate" or more correctly to be brain-washed into become a "faithful" zombified consumer, who dutifully buys all the LOGO name brand-name products that have been deeply implanted into their unconscious minds.

The topic of teaching (or reteaching) everyone the Western cultural canon is of course a favorite topic of all of the usual back-to-the-past conservatives. It is very much promoted by the IPA/Quadrant nexus. In fact they insist that it should be the bedrock base of any "good" education in this time and place. Kevin Donnelly pushes this theme.

But does knowledge and even a deep appreciation of the Western musical and literary canon necessarily make one a better person, or even more importantly culturally literatate when in our complex multi-cultural world ALL cultures are now very much face-to-face in a very small boat.

One person who really dug listening to the very best Western classical music, and discussing the finer points of Western (German) literature, during a dinner of fine food and the very best wine was the very infamous consummate bureaucrat Rudolf Hoss.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Tuesday, 4 October 2016 1:01:10 PM
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Rudolf Hoss? The famous cowboy?
Posted by Jardine K. Jardine, Tuesday, 4 October 2016 2:34:01 PM
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runner, Tuesday, 4 October 2016 10:15:51 AM A world made in England

You write: "the truth is that the Judeo Christian ethic made this nation great. Secularism/Islam is sending it back to the days of Sodom and Gomorrah.]

The bigot is free to express his/her opinion here as you exemplify. But you cannot publish your opinion with impunity. Were we to acknowledge historical precedent in the light of the same freedom we must allow that it was not the Judeo/Christian ethic that promoted such freedoms, in fact it diligently persued a policy of keeping the faithful ignorant, impoverished and wretchedly fearful of Judeo/Christian authority. The faithful had the "freedom" to live in fear, be constantly hungry, cling desperately to a brief life-span and love unconditionally the deity who imposed these conditions on them via his earthly vicars. Being a female was infinitely less attractive an existence, condemned as they were by a loving deity to suffer the pain of childbirth without remediation. 30% of young women [or more] died in child birth. An even greater percentage died from constant pregnancy brought about by the biblical admonition to multiply the numbers of faithful.

What a ghastly legacy to look back on. Now tell us it was the Judeo/Christian ethic that raised women up from their terrible station to the one they occupy today. Not perfect, but a damned sight better than if left to the machinations of your particularly abominable ethic. An iron-age ethic that valued women as less than cattle. An ethic that even today treats women, HALF OF HUMANKIND, as unequal to men, an ethic that tells them that celibate wrinkled old men who wear dresses are better qualified to demand that women should not have ultimate authority over their own persons and physical bodies.

"It is now quite lawful for a Catholic woman to avoid pregnancy by a resort to mathematics, though she is still forbidden to resort to physics or chemistry."
H. L. Mencken
US editor (1880 - 1956
Posted by Pogi, Tuesday, 4 October 2016 3:44:28 PM
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Ah, I get it, Daffy: you've just done a course in the Evils of Consumerism I ?

So you have it a bit both ways too, that you define Western civilization in terms of Bach and Beethoven and Dickens and Shakespeare, then condemn it for being familiar in those forms to a war criminal like Hoss ? Nothing like schadenfreude, eh Daffy ? Be careful that doesn't slip over into the nihilism that you rightly condemn.

Oh well, back to topic: there is some value in having a common language. The Enlightenment has provided a foundation for many national systems (honoured more often in the breach perhaps) in terms of human rights, the rule of law, equality of men and women, the value of scientific investigation and of evidence over religion. Western medicine is probably superior to magic and spells. People in Western countries, and those modelled on them, are probably more likely to die of old age in their beds than people in traditional societies.

Although it hasn't been inevitable, human progress can occur. Societies have progressed immeasurably from traditional systems to those embedded in the twenty-first century, and from that perspective, we can appreciate how far other societies have to go, to overcome some of their out-moded and backward notions, e.g. with respect to women, work, science - how the world should , work, generally speaking. No Western society is perfect, and none ever will be. But we all can make those comparisons and, if we're honest, make judgments accordingly.

And no, this doesn't mean that any Western country has go to invading anywhere, but neither can we sit by and wring our hands at the misery of others either.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 4 October 2016 3:53:28 PM
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Yep I know Pogi. Secularism is all about ME. You must be thankful that you even have an opinion. Many secular mums would of had you slaughtered in the womb. Also if you had not received such a dumbed down education you would realise the simple fact that the laws of physics require a Lawmaker, the laws of chemistry require a law Maker. I know that secularism specialises in pseudo science and moral relativity. That allows you to paint a dishonest picture of history but who cares eh. The secularist have convinced themselves their is no absolute right or wrong. Easy to tell a young boy with a penis he is really a she if he/she feels like it. Please give is a break from your dogma. It is far from rational.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 4 October 2016 4:18:08 PM
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