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The Forum > Article Comments > Is the Census really useful? > Comments

Is the Census really useful? : Comments

By Michael Keane, published 3/8/2016

To understand the complexity and real world nature of service delivery is to understand why the Census is nothing more than a ritualistic waste of money.

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All that being said, at least the Number Crunchers, at least, have something to go on. If a Census wasn't held then no one would know what was going on anywhere.

I do believe that the Government of the Day misses a great opportunity to gather more information on what the people of Australia really think about issues affecting them.

Eg, Marriage Equality, Abortion, Immigration, Climate Change, & a myriad of other taboo topics.

These could be added to the Census form at very little extra cost. An extra sheet of paper & everyone in Australia will have had a say. Just think of the benefit that would provide the Ministers in forming legislation. Think of it this way, A cheap Plebiscite covering a multitude of subjects.

It's a missed opportunity.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 8:30:51 AM
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I tend to disagree with the Author on this one.
That said, some of this may have been used to justify the removal of amenity and services like rail from the bush, arguably depopulated by city centric policy paradigms and the numbskull ideologues, who created them!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 3 August 2016 10:00:56 AM
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It certainly wasn't census data that they used to justify removal of rail services from the bush. But the census includes a journey to work question, which is very useful for transport service provision.

Other parts of the census are less useful, but still have a lot of value in dispelling myths. For instance it's census data that tells us only 2% of the population are Muslims, and that we're not "getting swamped by Asians".
Posted by Aidan, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 10:26:55 AM
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Excellent point about hospitals.

Hospitals cannot be picked up and moved to where the demand will be, so they need to be accessible.

Take for example the Northern Hospital in Epping Victoria, a small hospital in a hotspot for growth, so demand far exceeds the ability of that hospital to meet those demands.

Or for example the Canberra Hospital, which is a major tertiary teaching hospital. The population of the ACT was roughly 250,000 but the catchment area of that hospital exceeds 500,000.

Then we have the different age demographics. Retirees living down the coast, with a younger but gradually ageing ACT population. Tuggernong in the ACT was once known as nappy valley, but now those that were once in nappies have graduated to cars and jobs.

Governments tend to ignore issues that are not trendy to them, If we had our current governments 5 decades ago, we would still be in the stone age.
Posted by Wolly B, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 10:37:59 AM
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Of course it will be useful! I'm not going to bother reading this.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 11:09:27 AM
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The purpose of the census is to remind us that Big Brother is watching and keep us under his thumb. The rest are but transparent pretexts.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 11:13:44 AM
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They don't count Forgotten Australian families. Forgotten Australians
(people who were in care as children) probably have poorer life outcomes than other Australians. But nobody knows this for sure
because people are not asked to state if they were in care as children. Forgotten Australians, according to the Senate Enquiry of 2004, number about 500,000. If their families are counted as well, this makes over a million Australians, still being Forgotten.
Posted by ForgottenAustralianFamily, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 12:29:32 PM
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If a census is necessary to provide a service, then why don't all other service providers, including those that provide housing, food, cars, clothing, medicines and electronic goods, all require the power to impose a compulsory census, asking what questions it thinks fit, and comppete with threats of punishment for non-compliance?

The statists as usual completely disregard the etjical dimension.

Far from being necessary to provide a service, the census is just a reflection of the economic calculation problem. All central planning necessarily imposes a disconnect between what is being produced and what the masses - society - want to be produced.

All the statistics and record-keeping, all the increase in government power in the world cannot overcome this fundamental defect and incompetence, which inheres in all socialism however named.
Posted by Jardine K. Jardine, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 12:41:17 PM
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The Census is a very inexpensive way that Australia, as a developed, progressive, nation, measures itself. On just one measure (the ability of the Census to accurately determine Total Population) the Census is crucial.

So a Census is part of Nation Building.

I fear that the author is a Luddite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite#In_modern_thought

One dribble away from a knuckle drag...
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 2:09:17 PM
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With changes to the length of time personal data is to be kept by Government, the Census is likely to produce unreliable data, as more people simply won't fill out the Census form.

What is meant by "Government", is "political parties", as political parties have taken control of our Government.

So if someone does not trust the political parties in Australia, (and I can not think of any reason why someone should trust the political parties in Australia), then they can not trust a political party to look at their personal data.

The political parties who agreed to change the Census system did not consult with the public before changing the Census system, so they are likely to change the Census system again, and again these political parties will not believe they have to consult with the public.

Besides the huge lack of trust that is developing, the Census is basically useless.

The population is being rapidly increased through immigration and the results of that are not predictable.

New suburbs are being built to house the rapidly increasing population, but these suburbs are basically not suitable for human existence.

These man made atrocities and are likely to produce a range of health and social issues in the future, ranging from social isolation and loneliness to increased drug taking to increased domestic violence to increased obesity in children because there is no where for the children to play.

So...the Census is just a farce with this unsustainable level of immigration, and rapidly increasing population that only the banks and real estate agents want.
Posted by interactive, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 3:32:19 PM
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I don't really see what the problem is with the Census. It's got your name & address at the top, as every form has. This is used to check is you filled it out or not then is discarded. The rest of the information is placed on a Spreadsheet for later analysis.

What personal Data is collected. None that I can see. No Medical, No Police Record, No Traffic Violations, No bank details, No Investment details. They don't even ask if you drive a car or wear a hat.

All there is, is, How many people are in the house on that night, What type of house it is, Where you were born, How many children you have had if you are a woman, What faith if any. So what's to object to? Nothing.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 3:49:47 PM
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Dear Plantagenet,

Pharaoh was a great nation-builder, so were Stalin and Mao.

All they want is to build their pyramids, counting our bodies so they can use it as cement.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 9:28:22 PM
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Dear Yuyu

Wot's wrong wit tue boy/girl?

If a Pharaoh or Stalin or Mao had any relevance to Australia your comment would have some meaning.

But they don't and yours doesn't.

Now, if Billy Hughes returns and runs for PM in 2019, then I'll take notice.
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 11:47:31 PM
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//The purpose of the census is to remind us that Big Brother is watching and keep us under his thumb. The rest are but transparent pretexts.//

Whatever, Yuyutsu...

The census counts people in dwellings. Don't want to be counted? Go camping on census night and you can render yourself invisible for census purposes.

Although I don't know why you'd bother. The ABS are not the Gestapo, they're statisticians for heavens sake. A bunch of bean-counters so boring that accountants would avoid them at parties if they ever got invited. They are entirely harmless, and tossing them a few beans to count to keep them amused is not going to lead to the rise of a totalitarian state.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 4 August 2016 7:54:06 AM
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Dear Toni,

«Go camping on census night and you can render yourself invisible for census purposes.»

I was planning just that, but the bastards even closed this loophole. They now expect you to report as if you've been home if you returned home on Wednesday and even if you return home only on Thursday, they still want you to report about people who have been regularly living in this house during the past 6 months or are expected to live there during the next 6 months. Moreover, their online software will not allow you to report that nobody has been home (even when indeed nobody was home), but instead tells you that in that case you must phone them instead. It seems that they have become more sophisticated than just a bunch of boring bean-counters.

No, the ABS are not the Gestapo - they are useful idiots who serve the regime. They will be the first to view your information - but who be the next?

What we need, buddy, is a revolution. Kick out that gang and dismantle their crime-syndicate which they call "The Commonwealth of Australia". Free the good people of this continent from their evil!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 4 August 2016 12:33:48 PM
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Dear Plantagenet,

What material(s) do you build a nation with?

Bricks? Wood? Iron? Rocks? Sand?

No: nations are made of people - and those people are us!

What that gang wants, is to subjugate us and use up our precious lives - the lives of all who happen to live in this continent and the islands surrounding it, to satisfy their pervert ambitions of building a nation. The census is but a stock-take within the regime's overall terrorist plot.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 4 August 2016 12:52:16 PM
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Dearest Yuyu

While you clearly prefer Mao and Stalin my hero is the loco Billy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Hughes .

Now, if Billy Hughes returns and runs as Senator for Queensland on a United Australia Party ticket, then I'll take notice.

Poida
Posted by plantagenet, Thursday, 4 August 2016 1:17:47 PM
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The old saying that you cannot control or plan for anything you don't measure is as true today as it was decades ago. It is the difference between forward planning and reactive planning.

A census every 5 yrs or so shows not only where we are today, but comparing against previous records where we are likely to be. Waking up to a crisis of a shortage of school or geriatric care places is costly to fix if not planned for.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 4 August 2016 2:01:51 PM
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I just been to the front Door & found my Census Papers. I had a good look through it & found nothing untoward that could be used against me or mine. I really don't know what the fuss is about. I'll be filling them out on line though.

Yutsie, the way you are carrying on it sounds like you have something to hide. Either that, or you've been at the Incense again. Naughty boy. ;-)

I guess some people just like to rebel against everything. I bet they don't rebel about getting Welfare.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 4 August 2016 2:03:13 PM
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Jayb,

Why do they want your name AND your address?

Because with your name AND your address, they have identified YOU (as there are few people in Australia who have the same name and live at the same address).

Then, with your name AND your address, it is possible to search other databases to find out a whole lot of things about you.

It is not necessary for the ABS to keep your name AND your address FOR 4 YEARS, unless they want to search other databases.

Got it yet?

You may also ask yourself what the Census has done for planning in Australia?

Absolutely nothing.

Australia has no plan.

Other than growing the population through immigration.

And building more suburbs that are unfit for human habitation, and destroying our natural environment, and using up natural resources at a faster rate, and diluting the wealth in Australia by spreading it among more people, and creating a future where our young will find it increasingly difficult to get a job or afford a house.
Posted by interactive, Thursday, 4 August 2016 3:43:18 PM
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Interactive: Because with your name AND your address, they have identified YOU.

& just why would they want to identify ME in particular. Unless you are on their Radar for some reason. In that case THEY know everything about you anyway. So filling in the Census tells them nothing they don't already know.

They know every thing about you, right down to you school grades, who your friends were at school, what you got up to, what you do now, every Red Light you ever ran & lots, lots more.

How do I know that. I got offered a job in 1970. Three months holiday anywhere in the World $1000 a month & all PX privileges (in 1970 the Average wages was $120 a month) & all I had to do was ride Shotgun on a Road Project or be an Oil Field Guard. ;-) Oh! look some "Wild Geese" just flew past. I was shown my File. I had everything about my life in it from the day I was born, even the secret things no-one else ever knew.

So I say, don't sweat the Census. It's nothing. They already know all about you. Oh, It can never be used against you, but if, like me a few years back & I had to Vet someone I could apply for a Vet & it would come back with a Blue or Red stamp on it.

I take it by you anxiety that YOU think YOU are one of those people on their Radar. Coronary coming up, or what! ;-)
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 4 August 2016 4:09:49 PM
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A "reasonable excuse" for not answering the census is that you were away on census night from the dwelling-place in question, for example on a 3 day camping trip, nudge nudge, wink wink.
Posted by Jardine K. Jardine, Thursday, 4 August 2016 4:20:30 PM
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KJK: A "reasonable excuse" for not answering the census is that you were away on census night from the dwelling-place in question.

It doesn't matter anyway. Question 53 has that covered.

53: Name of each person who usually lives in this dwelling but was away on Thursday, 9 August 2016.
Is the person Male or Female.
What is that persons date of Birth or age.
Etc, Etc,.

Well there ya go Yutsie. You may as well stay home. Beats being cold & wet in the bush where the Drop Bears will get ya.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 4 August 2016 5:07:14 PM
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Jayb,

So if organisations in Australia already know everything about everyone, then where is The Plan.

I have seen the congested traffic, and the unlivable new suburbs, and the countless new houses with no backyard for the children to play, and the acres of bushland clear-felled for those new houses, and I would now like to see The Plan for Australia?

If political parties no longer work for this country, then who is holding the reins, and who has The Plan?

Is it the un-elected ABS (which has just lost all credibility with the public, and even the Liberal Party now seems to be attempting to distance itself from the smell of the ABS).

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4513081.htm
Posted by interactive, Thursday, 4 August 2016 5:24:10 PM
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Interactive: So if organisations in Australia already know everything about everyone, then where is The Plan.

Oh they have a Plan alright. There is a 50 Year Plan, a 30 year plan, a 25 year plan, a 15 year Plan, a 10 & a 5 year plan. It gets revised closer to the implementation of a particular Project as a result of the Census.

Around Townsville on the Highway north there is an Over Hear Rail Bridge. In it are two Multilane openings. So far only one has been used the other is overgrown & filled with odd mounds of dirt. It was built in the early 60’s. But, eventually another road will get built through there to service the Northern Beaches going North & the one there now will be the Road South. To the West of Townsville, on Ant Hill Plains there is an area that when you buy a block of land around that area you sign a Document saying you won’t complain about the Aircraft noise. There are three small Hobby Air Strips in the Area so people don’t mind signing.

I just happen to know that eventually that’s where a New International Air Port will be built & Garbutt will revert to a full Military Base. I saw the Plans in the 70’s. A mate was in charge of doing the Drainage & Culverts in the Area. All very, very hush, hush at the time. The Ross Dam was put in to drain the Area, not supply Townsville with a Water Supply.

Lot’s of things like that around if you keep your eyes open.

Oh & one of my uncles was Shady Lane (Bedroom Relation) in the Queensland Government at the time. He said at the time that the Area was a good place to make an investment & it would pay off eventually.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 4 August 2016 8:47:51 PM
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Obviously The Plan for Townsville is not so good.

With an unemployment rate in Townsville approaching 14%, (regarded as the worst unemployment rate in Australia).

As well as numerous social problems in Townsville, and the environment around Townsville is in rapid decline, and of course the Great Barrier Reef offshore from Townsville is dying.

The planning for the rest of QLD is much the same.

The Census has been of no benefit to anyone, and there was no consultation with the public regards the recent changes that the ABS have imposed on the public.

It has resulted in one of the greatest bureaucratic stuff ups in Australia's history, and heads should roll because of it.

I would think complete removal of the entire management hierarchy of the ABS, and their replacement with managers willing to consult with the public.

The managers removed from the ABS will have to learn to rub shoulders with the plebs on the dole lines at Centerlink.
Posted by interactive, Friday, 5 August 2016 7:47:22 AM
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I tend to agree with the author, but only because in today's modern world we all have a myriad of information "tentacles" reaching into numerous government departments, be they local, state or federal, weather we like it or not.
Can't get away from that if you want even a basic level of standard of living.
Posted by Rojama, Saturday, 6 August 2016 11:48:21 AM
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Hey interactive best you take a look at this link. It sort of backs up my last post. Every time you fill out an On Line Survey, every time you use your Credit Card or turn on your Computer. Some one Some where knows about it.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/company-built-profile-every-american-115515020.html

Poll; Should I change my Avatar to Swizzlestick?
Posted by Jayb, Saturday, 6 August 2016 3:43:18 PM
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Jayb,

Of course data is being kept on people.

And this is the reason why no one, (particularly young people who have their life ahead of them), should ever use spyware such as Facebook or Twitter.

The big difference with the ABS is that it is compulsory for people to supply an unelected organisation with personal data.

And this data will be kept for 4 years for that organisation to do whatever it wants with that data.

And no public consultation was carried out by this organisation before it went ahead with its plans.

Not carrying out public consultation before setting a policy for the public is archaic management, and something a political party would normally do.

The ABS now shows itself as archaic, and no better than a political party.
Posted by interactive, Sunday, 7 August 2016 6:55:19 PM
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Interactive: The big difference with the ABS is that it is compulsory for people to supply an unelected organisation with personal data.

I don't know what you are complaining about. You give more personal Data away than is wanted in the Census every time you use your Credit Card.
Posted by Jayb, Sunday, 7 August 2016 8:44:51 PM
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Jayb

I doubt very much that a bank would be interested in my small expenditures each day on items such as washing powder and petrol.

I am more concerned about political parties, and what they will do to gain power and stay in power.

You should read "Confessions of a Congressman" to see how much information a political party collects about people (not government, but POLITICAL PARTY, as there is a big difference).

http://www.vox.com/2015/2/5/7978823/congress-secrets

The ABS has shown no consultation with the public before it made its changes, and the ABS is no better than a political party.

B.T.W

If you have sent census information online, then the information may have been compromised already, as the ABS has been using a deprecated and insecure encryption system.

http://www.itnews.com.au/news/abs-forced-to-defend-census-website-security-432176

So you may get an increase in spam in your email.

Congratulations, you have just won $10 billion, and to claim your prize, just send $1000 to an offshore bank account.
Posted by interactive, Monday, 8 August 2016 6:49:01 PM
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interactive: Congratulations, you have just won $10 billion, and to claim your prize, just send $1000 to an offshore bank account.

Yes, yes, I get about 5 or 6 of them a day. Fines from the US Government, Closing my Bank Account, Have I got a Deal for you, My dear friend in god. Update my Pay Pal Account, Update my EBay Account.

Ebay is the source of much of it. I would even go as far to say OLO & The Forum, The Conversation, Yahoo & most of the Online Surveys are all in on, On Selling Membership Lists. Oh, Readers Digest is a good one for that & buying a ticket in an Art Union. Even getting new Glasses or a Hearing Aid. They are all in on it. It's another Revenue Stream.

You do as I do & send them to the Junk Box & do a clear out at the end of the day.

Nothing to get upset about, just deal with it. The Census is the least of your worries.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 8 August 2016 9:08:22 PM
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Jayb

Your next move should be a move to China

The political party that has taken control of China now has a "Social Credit System"

Data is mined, and the behaviour of every citizen is analysed and points allocated.

"All that behaviour will be integrated into one comprehensive assessment of you as a person, which will then be used to make you eligible or ineligible for certain jobs, or social services.”

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28314-inside-chinas-plan-to-give-every-citizen-a-character-score/

So, a mindless moron who adheres totally to the state (or the political party that has taken control of the state), and freely allows the state to pry into every aspect of their life could do well in China.
Posted by interactive, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 3:12:05 PM
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interactive: So, a mindless moron who adheres totally to the state (or the political party that has taken control of the state), and freely allows the state to pry into every aspect of their life could do well in China.

Thank you for the praise. Morons can be nice. Except I don't belong to a Political Party, but I have always voted for One Nation, if available.

There are people in the Community that the Government needs to keep a close eye on. I dare say you are one of those people. There is a rumour that the ABS is going to be Hacked. Are you one of those people.? Are you afraid of getting caught?

I imagine you are one of those people who cover their faces & turn up at Reclaim Australia Party Functions & violently Demonstrate & hit people with sticks. I suppose you then claim that the Reclaim people were being violent. I do believe the Government has YOUR name already & YOU are on the Watch List.

You know, I think the Government should bring back the "Star Chamber," when certain people need to be dealt with, with extreme prejudice. That would be good. Then they wouldn't need to watch so many people with mental illnesses & our jails wouldn't be so full. ;-)

Regards
Swizzlestick.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 4:15:28 PM
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Yeah, it does make for interesting times in the Senate, with several Senators stating they will not be filling out the Census form.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-09/senators-could-be-prosecuted-over-census-revolt-abs-says/7710750

Meanwhile, the political party that has taken control of the lower house (through hook or by crook) also wants these Senators on their side to get their neo-liberal legislation through the upper house.

Not much hope of that now.

And the the political party that has taken control of the lower house keeps saying that the ABS has never had a data breach.

Meanwhile, the ABS has had 14 data breaches since 2013.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jul/29/australian-bureau-of-statistics-reports-14-data-breaches-since-2013

What a stuff up for Australia, and all because a bureaucracy did not bother to consult with the public.
Posted by interactive, Tuesday, 9 August 2016 6:27:49 PM
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Population census may be defined as a regular counting of the number of women, men, children, able and disabled people in a country by the government for the purpose of economic planning and development.
Importance of Population Census
1. Population Density: The density of the population of the different areas of a country can easily be known. This will enable government to know the areas with large or small number of people
2. Labor: The number of labor available at a particular time in an area can be determined through population census.
3. Health: Provision of effective health care system because of a working knowledge of the number of doctors and nurses available, the number of hospitals and health centers, and this can easily be ascertained through a good and accurate population census.
4. Population size: Population census helps the government to know the total number of people in the country. This includes the sex, age, geographical and occupational distribution of the population
5. Economic Planning and Development: The Economic growth, planning and development of the country can easily be carried out using figures obtained from population census
6. Employment Opportunities and Control: The number of employed people could easily be known by the government through population census and this makes it possible for the government to know the number of employment opportunities to generate and control.
7. Provision of Social Amenities: Government would be able to know the number of people in a particular area at a given time and provision of social amenities could be based on the population of that area
8. Income Distribution: The national income of a country would be distributed equitably based on the knowledge of the population
9. Government Revenue: Through population census, the government will be able to know the number of taxable adults and this will help in no small measure in the estimation of the expected revenue for a particular period.
10. Education: The Government would be able to plan an effective educational system for its country based on a good knowledge of the population of the country.

http://www.merchantproinc.com
Posted by merchant services provider, Friday, 19 August 2016 10:26:52 PM
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