runner,

Firstly I do not have any insane gw faith. I have rational beliefs based on evidence. Whereas you have irrational beliefs which appear to be based on wishful thinking - you don't want global warming to be true, so you decide it must be false. So you cherry pick evidence that appears to back your position, and ignore all the scrutiny it doesn't stand up to.

Secondly, of course I can see that the lifestyle I have been privileged to is largely a result of electricity and farming. So why did you try to build a strawman? Nothing I've said could reasonably be construed to imply that I'm against electricity and farming. I do of course want to make them environmentally sustainable, but there's no reason why that should be at all controversial.

Thirdly, the IPCC do not make prophecies. They report on the extent of the scientific understanding of the climate, and your accusation that they've failed is also disingenuous.

Fourthly, the distorted papers are a myth. Unlike the GW deniers, the climate scientists' methodology does stand up to scrutiny. But because the deniers are quick to pounce on anything scientific that appears to support their claims, and people like you accept what the deniers say and ignore any refutation of that, a couple of scientists were reluctant to release data and early results before their paper was finished.

Fifthly, if you listen to what Flannery actually said, rather than the absurd spin which some of his opponents put on it, you'll find that it's quite reasonable. He did not claim it would never rain again. His "prophecies" are nothing of the sort; they're simply warnings about the likely effects of inaction.

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ttbn,

We can do, and indeed have done, much more with nature than you think. We have fundamentally altered our environment. And unfortunately we've made many species extinct.

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Yuyutsu,

You clentered when you were born. You will clexit when you die.

"If the Paris climate accord is ratified, or enforced locally by compliant governments"

And there it is..."if".

But the promises will never be enforced, at least not to the point where it affects economic well-being. Sure, preening Western politicians will make the right noises and maybe even implement some window dressing to make it look like they are doing something to save the world. But when the cost gets too great they will back away from their self-imposed abyss and do the economic thing not the Co2 thing. As in Germany, we see coal making a come-back. As in Denmark we see wind being rejected. The new British government appears to be tip-toeing away from previous promises. And the USA..?

Meanwhile the non-western world has no intention of following this madness. China makes the right noises when need be but continues to open coal power plants. India has said outright that the economy comes first.

It may well come about that the whole thing becomes mute due to some technological break-through that provides amply power without CO2. It seems to me that Lomborg's prediction ((made a decade ago) that solar will be competitive with coal by 2035 remains on track. But until then, the world will continue to add to the CO2 levels in the atmosphere and the climate will do as it has always done...change.

'Whereas you have irrational beliefs which appear to be based on wishful thinking - you don't want global warming to be true'

I can assure you Aiden I wish the gw fairytale was true. I hate the cold. I also assure you and anyone else that can think that more people die from cold than heat on this planet. Check out the hospitals in winter and you might get the drift. Just don't let facts get in the way of your fantasy.

I agree with Viv's point about renewables being unreliable and intermittent, despite the fact that Viv's climate denial smacks of "I'm a farmer and I know better than all those physics types." (Dude, get a grip: the physics of CO2 was proved hundreds of years ago. It's nearly the 200th anniversary of the discovery of greenhouse gases! That's either one heck of a conspiracy theory, (up there with FK being killed by Elvis who lives on the moon) or just plain true.

But if true, what can we do about it? Is there a reliable, baseload, non-carbon emitting source of ABUNDANT power? Yes. And we're the Saudi Arabia of it! Nuclear: the French showed us how in the 70's, and the world can easily wean off it at just 115 GW a year. That's a *slower* build out rate on a reactor per unit GDP basis than the French already built out!

The LEFT say climate change is true, so we all have to go back to the middle ages. The RIGHT say climate isn't true, but if it were, nuclear is the answer. Somehow we need to break through these pathetically outdated mantra's, and actually listen to the scientists involved. Sadly, many groups quote Dr James Hansen on the problem of climate change, while ignoring his stated *solution*. He says that believing in 100% RENEWABLES is like believing in the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy. (Yes, he's aware of all the 'studies' that say we can, but still thinks storage is ridiculously expensive and cannot do the job).
http://goo.gl/8qidgV

Dear Aidan,

«You clentered when you were born. You will clexit when you die.»

If you are born to a Muslim father then you are considered a Muslim from birth and if you are born to a Jewish mother then you are considered a Jew from birth. If you happen to be born to both, then you are both Muslim and Jewish and only death can release you from this predicament.

Interesting perspective...

Runner,
you seem to be confusing "the cold" as a killer, when it is our behaviour changes in winter such as closing doors and staying inside more often that increases the transmission vector of virus. You're discussing the flu! We're discussing the climate!

You also seem confused about 'cold killing' and 'heat killing'. It's not that simple. Climate does NOT equal weather. Get a dictionary! Climate is about what happens when there is more ENERGY in the atmosphere, not just more heat. A two degree warmer plant DOES NOT equal a one degree warmer day where-ever you are. That completely misses the point of how that energy is actually spread through the various micro-systems on earth.

Anyway, demonstrating CO2's heat trapping physics is easy peasy. Even someone like you should understand the following videos.
A few short video's that show CO2's heat trapping ability:-
Mythbusters: 3 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPRd5GT0v0I

Watch the candle at 90 seconds in! The candle heat demonstration only goes for a minute. (The rest of the video is great, and demonstrates the accuracy of today's climate models).
http://climatecrocks.com/2009/07/25/this-years-model/