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The Forum > Article Comments > When Harry met Jerry > Comments

When Harry met Jerry : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 29/7/2016

Take the family out of the picture and 'having sex' (that graceless construction) is reduced to the pleasure principle and details relating to 'good sex'.

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Look, You haven't a ruddy clue Sells, given you need to take your examples of " completely normal" human relationships from utterly absurd works of fiction! Bring on the plebiscite!
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 29 July 2016 11:55:25 AM
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' "Good sex" is reduced to the orgasm that can, disturbingly, be faked.'

Not for anybody who knows what they are doing, it can't!
Posted by petere, Friday, 29 July 2016 12:24:33 PM
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What if promiscuous sex is my religion, Peter?
Posted by Jardine K. Jardine, Friday, 29 July 2016 5:08:02 PM
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//"Good sex" is reduced to the orgasm that can, disturbingly, be faked.//

That's a very narrow and reductionist view of sex, Peter. Although it's hardly surprising, given the focus your article places on procreation - which is obviously impossible without the male orgasm.

Interestingly, in Middle Ages Europe it was accepted medical 'wisdom' that female orgasms were also required for conception. The idea was based on some deeply misguided ideas about human anatomy, and has fallen out of favour. Still, maybe it might make for better sex if all the medical researchers just conspired to pretend it's true.

Although not necessarily. For despite what you may have been led to believe, it is possible to enjoy sex without having an orgasm - and yes, guys, that applies to us as well. Sex is for fun, not just giving your selfish genes a free ride.

I consider "good sex" to be most of it, especially the sex I am personally involved in. Giggity.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 29 July 2016 6:48:28 PM
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The fact that Peter continues his swing towards conservatism is much more interesting than this tired piece, which merely puts his Church's received views forward without attempting to support them with the tiniest shred of evidence. Once again 'we' are told what 'we' supposedly think and feel; but as far as I can tell, 'we' in this case is only Peter and the mouse in his pocket, constructing their own simulated universe in which a god has something to offer.

Speaking for myself, I thoroughly enjoyed the results of the sexual revolution. As well as being very pleasant in themselves, these may have helped to save me from the kind of ill-fated marriage which often beset the generation above me, including my own older brothers.

Sexual freedom is simply a matter of human rights. Those who want to engage in any kind of sexual activity should be entitled to do so as long as they don't hurt others in the process; those who don't shouldn't be forced to do so. But since that would involve renouncing the control they hold through imposing guilt, it's unlikely the mainstream churches will ever agree.
Posted by Jon J, Saturday, 30 July 2016 10:22:50 AM
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Seems to me, a closer and more relevant biblical comparison of today's modern secular attitude towards free-love and all its consequences, would be the fate that befell Lot and his family!
(Genesis chapter nine).

This euphemistic story in my view, gives us a close encounter with the possibilities and outcomes which may eventually impact on society in relevant ways, and offer more sober warnings than Seinfeld would ever achieve!

The story opens interestingly, as Lot is surrounded by a marauding gang of homosexuals at his house, calling for access to the two angles of God, Lots guests, (morals and sensibility),
Lot offers his two Virgin daughters (normality), as a bribe to the gathered crowd of homosexuals, but the offer is refused.

The story is of course, one of Gods vengeance on moral decay in a society, is a telling one; the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

If the story ended there, it would be a simple lesson, but the bible complicates the situation, and muddies the water, when eventually Lot has sexual intercourse with his two daughters. The lesson for Sells? Maybe the contamination of Gods children by the society in which they live, can be devastating and unavoidable. ( the slow decay of Christian morals)
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 30 July 2016 2:26:01 PM
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Diver Dan
Interesting reflection. See my piece on lot.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=2787
Posted by Sells, Saturday, 30 July 2016 10:04:14 PM
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To Sells...

I think the one word to describe the Bible is intriguing. I'm like so many Christians who were guided in a family with Christian values, for which I am profoundly grateful.
The moral guidance to the individual is simple and straightforward, but without a respect for it, it is easy to imagine why a fierce opposition from the Godless, in who's life morality is simply an annoyance!
I love this story of Lot, it speaks a relevance to modern man. Who wouldn't wish to escape a society hell-bent on destroying its past Christian traditions, and replacing them with the vaporous "nonsensical" of modern secular life, and hold up in a cave?
The story also highlights the probability the escape route will be contaminated with the scum from the world the isolationist wishes the exit. Escape is impossible!

Lot and his family chose to survive, but at the price of compromise, which was the compromise to an ideal of morality. Christianity is now compromised from the growing community acceptance of homosexuality. (Lot's home surrounded by homosexuals). But which is the greater sin, to hang with the fags, or an incestuous relationship with two daughters, (euphemistically)? Interesting.
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 31 July 2016 6:46:02 AM
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Diver Dan, we should be careful not to select certain parts of the old testament to put this article in perspective. The christian message is from Jesus Christ, hence the "Christ" in "Christ-ian" and he never condemned nor mentioned homosexuals. Doesn't matter what version of the Holy bible we are talking about either. JC simply does not mention the topic of homosexuality whatsoever.

As far as the article is concerned. "Great Sex" is open to interpretation. It's often cited that the orgasm is the cream on the cake so to speak... but the "build up" to orgasm, is that not the cake itself? Herein lies the dilemma that today's modern life, with all its pressures and time constraints fails to participate in.
This I believe is why modern forms of child free sex seem so shallow and meaningless.

Quality of time or time in quality is paramount or one misses the plot altogether.
Posted by Rojama, Sunday, 31 July 2016 1:04:42 PM
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Sorry Rojama, but the Old Testament is completely and entirely relevant to Christian teaching. Many a long sermon I have endured in the past, and I can assure you, the Christian message only makes sense in its total context of the Old Testament.

Homosexuality is an issue mentioned therein. In the case of Lot, it was very specifically mentioned as a moral and physical threat to Lot, and part of the reasons for fleeing Sodom.
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 31 July 2016 5:48:43 PM
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Dear Dan,

Sorry to spoil a good analogy, but the homosexuality within the sins of Sodom was only incidental. The evils of the Sodomites didn't even have anything to do with "free-love", but everything to do with free-hate-and-greed: the people of Sodom used to torture and rob all visitors and it just so happened that at this very instance of Lot's two visitors, the torture happened to be through sexual rape - whereas on other occasions they used different methods of torture, such as the infamous Sodom-bed.

The following pages speak for themselves:
http://www.iwgonline.org/docs/sodom.html
http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/2017931/jewish/What-Was-Wrong-with-Sodom.htm
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 31 July 2016 8:41:44 PM
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I can't allow myself to get sucked into that one Yuyutsu. Jewish text is not relevant to the Christian argument.

Outside of the portrayl of Lot being accosted by a band of homosexuals, as stated clearly in the Bible, ( the Christian Bible with less paraphernalia than the Jewish biblical texts), I am happy to conclude, apart from roaming rape gangs of homosexuals, I'm sure the depth of depravity extended deeper than a normal town of the region.

But let's not be trite; at least as trite as the Jews appear to be in their description of the sin of placing a bird net over a fruit tree! That is something I don't have a problem with, so one for the Jews then?
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 31 July 2016 9:36:58 PM
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Dear Dan,

«Jewish text is not relevant to the Christian argument.»

Sorry for interrupting your Christian argument.

I thought that sin was a serious universal problem which inflicts everyone - Christian or otherwise.

But given that this is a private discussion specifically about Christian sin, whatever this may mean, then I better stay out and not stick my nose here.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 3 August 2016 7:46:32 PM
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Yuyutsu, perish the thought...

I thought enough of your reference to read it through, but dismissed it in terms of the argument surrounding the state of moral decay in Sodom and Gomorrah, simply because I considered it was off the track! (Without wasting time elaborating on my conclusion).

Also, I preferred the simple Bible quote as enough in itself: It eliminated any opportunity to falsify the true meaning of the text,(which is pretty obvious)! Just another reason to dismiss your contribution as effectively meaningless in its meandering, when it finally emerged at the crooked style with the little cooked man looking for a cooked sixpence; all too feeble an argument in defence of homosexuality, which was disappointing to me too, to read a Jewish defence of homosexuality
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 6 August 2016 10:28:52 PM
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