Wow, most people didn't know it was all about that. I guess this shows why a school voucher, choice based education system would be so cool for our increasingly diverse 21st century society.

yep as the Queensland pollie said its grooming kids for paedophiles.

Tumblr Feminism as public policy, the real world consequences of allowing lunatics to have a say in the administration of first world society can be seen in Sweden and all signs point to that country going up in flames this northern summer.

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The issue is not that "there was such '*a major section' of our school population ... having no genitals", it is that 'a small section' of our school population are intersex, or have gender dysphoria, or are gay or lesbian.

It is somewhat ironic that, after talking about empathy, the author misrepresents reality; to the point of not having any empathy.

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Runner, perhaps you might read all of this -

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/there-is-nothing-dangerous-about-the-safe-schools-coalition-20160224-gn2yrn.html

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Babette, you do yourself a disservice by employing sarcasm so heavily as you do in this travesty of an article. No one is suggesting anyone has no genitals at school, although if you had done your homework before writing your little article you would know that there are a few, thankfully rare, cases of babies born with a mixture of genitals or no discernible sex as such. They are born deformed in the genital area.

The devastated parents and Doctors of these poor babies then have to make the heartbreaking decision of deciding which sex they should surgically make that baby, and sometimes they get it wrong. Your nasty article makes light of the situation these families find themselves in. How cruel is that?

You know as well as I do that this program is designed to alert children to the scientifically proven reality that we do actually have homosexual and transgender people in our community, and that they are real people. Obviously we have no kids at school who have no genitals, but we may well have some kids who had their genitals surgically altered at birth, through no fault of their own, and you make light of that.
Shame on you.

If we ignore this reality, as many sarcastic, ignorant people have tried to do for years, then that is giving kids and some adults a license to bully those who are different in school. I have no problem with State schools disseminating this proven scientific information, and nasty people like this author can send their kiddies to religion based schools to learn about an unscientific, fictitious God or two.

Of course, there is nothing “wrong” in believing in a god. There is no proven God, but belief in him does no harm. But when this belief starts infringing on other people's rights to even exist, it takes this madness too far. It is strange that someone who believes in an all-powerful being who made the world and all within it, would want to judge and mock some of these people for who they are.

The problem with this "Safe Schools" program is that it messes with the minds of the vast majority of healthy, normal heterosexual children to solve a presumed "problem" for a tiny percentage who are not.

In the case of the socialist left spivs in Victoria, they are going to bully everybody by making the brainwashing compulsory.

This is the worst example of social engineering I can recall.

Babette is correct, no amount of posturing is going to change the chromosomal facts. The rest is just left wing cant.

The pretence is "bullying". Yet the program ignores the real bullying of children who are physically small (bullies think they're an easy target), those with higher than average intelligence (just because they're smart and they make bullies, who are usually morons, feel inferior), and occasionally those who are "different" because they are the children of migrants, or simply have some other irrelevant difference, such as those with red hair.

And girls are not beyond bullying either. The nasty schoolgirls who bully other girls are a matter of public record, but that has nothing to do with the "Safe Schools" nonsense and will not be diminished by it.

By far the biggest group of bullied kids, in my experience as a school student, were those who were small or obviously intelligent.

How about a program for them?

As it is, we have an ideologically motivated minority view being imposed on everyone else - presumably as a dry run for the gay "marriage" campaign to come.

Yeah, this should do it: convince young kids with a not-fully-developed notion of reality, that they might lose their genitals, something that has never occurred to them (and to most of us, no matter how old we might be). Put the doubts in their minds in the name of encouraging 'scepticism' about gender roles. Groom them for any pedophile around who might want to 'enable' them to 'find their true orientation'. Brilliant.

Gramsci would be proud.

Joe

Unlike Susieonline I liked this article, sarcasm and all. Susie says "You know as well as I do that this program is designed to alert children to the scientifically proven reality that we do actually have homosexual and transgender people in our community, and that they are real people."
Do you really think there are children out there who are unaware of homosexuals or transgender people? If they have watched any kind of reality tv they would have been bombarded by these peoples sexual differences.
Like the author I have concerns about indoctrinating kids who are often at quite a confused period in their life. Informing them that "no-one can tell you if you are a boy or a girl" seems to be ignoring the basic facts of life and seems more likely to confuse and distress rather than combat any bullying. I recall being bullied at school due to having red hair and freckles. I also remember other kids for being bullied for being stupid or weak or fat or having acne. I never remember anyone being bullied for lacking genitals, being homosexual.
I think this program is ideologically based and should probably be scrapped.

Hi Rhys,

No relation of that wonderful archaeologist ? A truly lovely man. Vale.

What makes people think that homosexual kids, or kids who are already a bit uncertain about their whatever (they wouldn't have a name for it, for Christ's sake) can't be bullies ? My dim memories of primary school and early high school suggest that it was fairly ordinary for boys to have crushes on girls (I was deeply in love with five girls at once: Margaret, Judy, Dale, Jane, Lynette; I still think of Margaret .... if you're out there ....) but we were aware that some other boys didn't seem to have any attraction towards girls. And occasionally, to show they were real men, they tried to bully other kids. We just tolerated it, without knowing what it was all about.

My grandparents were nudists, they looked after us kids for a year or so, so on weekends we used to go off to the Royal National Park to mix with other nudists. A bit of a turn-off actually, although extremely educational - I can report, Suse, that everybody seemed to have the appropriate bits.

It might have retarded my interest in lady bits for a couple of years, but like other fifteen-year-olds, I became obsessed with the perfection of God's most wonderful creation, again and again. Once you've seen Gina Lollobrigida or Brigitte Bardot, how could anybody even want to be gay ?

And I've been happily heterosexual ever since. Every day. About every seventeen seconds. Girls, beware of dozy-looking old men on city park benches.

Joe

Loudmouth, I can't believe you are as ignorant as Runner in linking paedophilia and homosexuality? Gay men are no more likely than any other men to be paedophiles.
Look it up for yourself on reliable scientific, non- religious sites.

Where do you stand on the more than half of all paedophiles who prefer girls as prey?
Are they somehow not so bad?
These rock spiders seem to be conveniently forgotten in these disgusting debates on homosexuality.

Statistically, I would imagine some kids in every school since the beginning of time have turned out to be gay, without any help from 'education' such as this anti-bullying program, so I don't know how they managed to 'learn' this sexual orientation, do you?

Rhys-Jones, if, as you say, all the kids would already know about gay or transgender people, then where is the harm in bringing it up at school? They are trying to stop the bullying of kids at school who may be gay or transgender, and that can't be a bad thing surely?

Of course, some of these kids would have been indoctrinated at home by their homophobic parents who have no problems calling other gay adults all sorts of nasty names and bullying them at any opportunity, so trying to balance out that damage at schools can only be a good thing.

Just what, exactly, is everyone afraid of anyway?
If your kid is gay, he/she didn't 'learn' about it at school, they were born that way.

Talking about indoctrination and 'reality', I believe forcing kids to believe in and 'pray to' non-existent gods is not suitable for state schools (or any school for that matter) to do at all.

The Safe Schools Coalition is the best argument for home-schooling yet. I would hope that private schools will not allow this rubbish in. There seems to be nothing anyone can do about basic literacy and numeracy for our hapless children who have to find jobs in an adverse labour market.

If there is much more of this garbage democracy itself will be called into question.

Calwest:

You have raised the most pertinent point about the discrimination of this program. The education system says it is committed to zero-bullying and yet it sees fit to only have special programs for combating bullying of kids with sexual differences. If they are serious about bullying they will want to make school safe for all kids. Kids bully because of a perceived difference and every kid has an equal right to ‘safety’.

Programs that focus on sexual issues are not only giving information about the rights and respect due to kids of any sexual minority but by singly out those issues they are also showing kids that those who belong to such minorities are more important to the school than those who do not but are also bullied. It is also saying that sexual issues are more important than any other personal issue that a student may be dealing with. It puts sexual issues out of all proportion and kids then wonder why sexual problems are more urgent than any other problems. Then they begin to worry unnecessarily about their own sexuality because although they do not feel concerned about their sexuality they begin to think that maybe they should.

It puts sexual issues out of all proportion because those adults who create the programs have their own sexual issues out of all proportion and the more dramatic they can make them the more important to themselves they can appear and this makes up for their general insecurity as people.

Programs like this are elitist and create a class of people who think that their problems are far more important than anyone else’s. Kids who have sexual issues then become so narcissistic that they themselves become the bullies because they have learnt that society has not just included them but exalted them above other kids.

Hi Suse,

I don't think I linked pedophiles to homosexual men: my point was - perhaps clumsily put - that pedophiles of all varieties would be happy to get on to sites that these poor kids - girls as well as boys - are tricked into accessing, and grooming them. Both homosexual and pervert-heterosexual, and mostly men, I should imagine - unless you have other information ?

I've always been an atheist, by the sway. Sorry, that religious crap won't work. Do you have any other arrow in your quiver ? No ?

But I will repeat: when I was at school, some of the bullies may well have been gay, or at least ambivalent, just the sort of kids that this 'brilliant' initiative would tap into: some bullies certainly didn't seem to have any interest in girls. I would suggest that this lack of empathy may have been the reason for them to pick on us smaller kids if we seemed to be more interested in girls than in them.

Just surmising. And some of their 'rough-housing' did seem to involve shoving our faces up against their arses and farting. Maybe that was a clue. They weren't the nicest of people.

Joe

Loudmouth, I know you are an atheist, but most others on this subject aren't. Not that I am saying there aren't homophobes amongst atheists, just as there are decent people amongst theists.

We had anti-bullying lectures even when I was at school...eons ago. My daughter's school had a strong anti-bullying program, including having acting groups come to the school to act out how bullies operate, and how to tackle this bullying.
I am sure these measures were not just dealt with at her state primary school and later at the local Catholic college, but were widespread amongst most good schools, so I don't see how anyone can say we haven't been trying hard to stamp out bullying for ALL children?

Obviously, this one-size fits all anti-bullying strategy has not been effective for gay or transgender kids, or the government would not be wasting time and money on this new initiative? Gay and transgender teenagers may need more help to stop the suicides and mental health issues. How can any reasonable person have a problem with that?

Hi Suse,

Are you suggesting that normal kids don't think about suicide ? This is half the point - that kids between 10 and 16 or so are often in all sorts of doubts about life generally, about their place in the world, about all their various social relations, about the future, about what might be their inadequacies in coping, etc., etc.

And this sort of idiotic program would be just the thing to tip them over. We'll see.

And yes, I did use the word 'normal' deliberately. So sue me :)

Joe

funny enough I have found those practicing homosexuality not nearly as nasty and sick as those pushing the agenda. Funny thing that.

Suseonline:

“Obviously, this one-size fits all anti-bullying strategy has not been effective for gay or transgender kids, or the government would not be wasting time and money on this new initiative? Gay and transgender teenagers may need more help to stop the suicides and mental health issues.”

You think that governments only ever do what is reasonable? They can’t be manipulated and bullied?

“Gay and transgender teenagers may need more help to stop the suicides and mental health issues.”

Bullying is bullying. It is just as devastating to all teenagers. Why would gay and transgender teenagers commit suicide and have mental issues as a result of bullying more than other teenagers bullied for different reasons? It is about bullying and not the reason for the bullying. How arrogant to suggest that their pain is of a greater degree than those bullied for other reasons. It probably is a fact that they suicide more and have mental issues more often but all that tells us is that these kids as a group up more unstable than other kids. It is never logical to commit suicide. It is irrational behaviour and any kid who thinks that suicide is a rational response to being bullied at school has serious mental issues. Any adult who tries to manipulate the argument by suggesting that such a response to bullying is logical is really clutching at straws.

The question should be asked why these kids are more unstable than other kids in general and the answer is not because of bullying

Hi Phanto,

Thanks for emphasising the point I made.

As an example, when I was 10 I returned to a school mid-term that I'd attended for a year when I was five.

On my first day back I was very disturbed and confused to see three thugs had surrounded a smaller kid, whom we'll call Tom, because that was his name. Each stepped in in turn and thumped him in the ribs or chest. Tom just stood against the wall and covered his ribs as best he could. He took the punches and didn't cry or show pain.

I had no idea what was going on at the time, but it was bullying, plain and simple. As I realised later, Tom was a brilliant student. He went on to get double first class honours in maths and physics. To make matters worse, his female class teacher also monstered him for the next three years.

Bullying? It's not just gays and a lot of bullied kids then face further punishment from teachers if they relatiate and thump the bully. They just can't win.

As I said, smaller kids and more intelligent kids are the prime targets for bullies.

On and on they go claiming that homosexuals choose to be that way, and nothing could be further from the truth!

And it allows some very nasty people to impose their sick phobias on others, who through no fault of their own were born different.

And given you believe in God, these different folk were created by him/her as they are.

If J.C. walked among us today, with his ultra gentle nature and the preference for the company of men, many commenting here would judge him to be gay?

Not for nothing do these words attributed to him ring out to us from that much earlier time, "inasmuch as you do to the least among you, so also do you do unto me"!

No one appointed any of these patently obsessed folk as judge and jury nor the keeper of other folks morals, bent or otherwise.

All you have a right to do, is live the best life you are capable of, and at the closing of that life, be able to look the man or woman in the mirror and know you are a better kinder more empathetic person for having traveled this way.
Rhrosty.

' No one appointed any of these patently obsessed folk as judge and jury nor the keeper of other folks morals, bent or otherwise.'

Yeah Rhrosty and it takes self appointed sickos to brainwash kids with this filth. People wanting validate their own warped choices should have no access to our kids.

Rhrosty, thank you : )
At last, a voice of reason in a sea of truly nasty humans.
I can't deal with this anymore. They are beyond help.

Schools should be educating kids for work. Anything else is up to the parents. Politicians should grow a set of genitals and clean the whole shebang up so that it's not just Chinese kids with brains.

Rhrosty:

Why do you need to keep telling us that homosexuals were born that way? What difference does it make? Are you saying that because someone was born that way that none of their behaviour is open to criticism? That because they were born homosexual they can do no wrong?

This thread is about minority sexualities promoting their own agenda instead of treating all school kids fairly and appropriately regarding their age. Are you saying that homosexual people are incapable of pushing an unfair agenda, of being dishonest or manipulating governments and school principals?

No one is telling homosexual people how to live their lives but how to behave justly and honestly when it comes to the education and care of children. Don’t you care about that or are you too busy sermonising all those who would ‘push their sick phobias onto others’.

People like you are the ones doing the damage because you do not want kids to be treated equally but rather you want kids with sexual issues to be given preferential treatment. It says more about your attitude to sex than it does to your attitude to bullying. Where are you when the fat kid is bawling his eyes out down the back of the shelter shed because the other kids (including the kids with sexual issues) torment and bully him on a daily basis?

If you had empathy and cared about kids you would do so for all kids. Bullying causes pain and how arrogant are you to say that one kids pain is not important just so you can pontificate in a most religious fashion about how homosexuals are born and not made. Only you care about whether they were born or not because only you want to align yourself with the arrogant righteous.

Suseonline:

“At last, a voice of reason in a sea of truly nasty humans.
I can't deal with this anymore. They are beyond help.”

Therein lays the problem for you. If you can’t help someone then they are of no use to you.

You cannot refute the arguments put forward in this thread about the preferential treatment given to kids of minority sexualities and so you resort to calling people ‘nasty humans’. You cannot tolerate the possibility that those kids are not as needy as you would like them to be because you want them to be needy. In fact you need them to be needy because your whole identity is wrapped up in what you think is helping others but which is in fact feeding your own neurotic need to ‘mother’ others.

You can’t deal with it anymore because it is undermining your whole notion of who you think you are. Coming on these forums and trying to pretend that you really care about these issues when in fact you only care about yourself is an abuse of these forums. They are not here to meet your own needs for relevance – they are here to try and come to an understanding of what needs to be done for a better society. You don’t care about these kids at all. You only see them as some fodder for your own desperate needs.

very well summarised Phanto.

I don't know about the students but many teachers have empty scrotums.

The self evident homophobes posting here are it seems, more offended by difference than the material they claim as offensive.

As for the material, well absolutely every school filters what they will and won't allow kids to be exposed to!

Runner, there are no gay germs, you can't catch homosexuality, and there are no ways to reeducate folks to change their basic nature!

You for example as a self declared straight can't be bent.

Simply put, you didn't chose your sexuality! And impossible!

Neither does anyone else! stop obsessing over difference and the shutting down of gay bashing/bullying.

You attend to the "man" in the mirror and allow others to do the same.

Arguably our greatest swimmer, Ian THorpe was bullied into coming out.

I mean if you could bully something like homosexuality out of existence it would have been eliminated B.C.

However it can't be bullied or raped out of existence. It is like bullying left handedness out of existence. It just doesn't work.

People are born who and what they are! Get over it and get a life, as opposed to a homophobic oppression!
Rhrosty.

Rhrosty, "Arguably our greatest swimmer, Ian THorpe was bullied into coming out"

Gay Pride activists pursued celebrities to 'out' them. There was and is, quite a campaign with speculative gossip that has to be denied or accepted being conducted by Gay activists. It is obvious on the Net and in the media. The expression 'to out' is probably something they invented too. Marxist tactics.

The claimed bullying of homosexuals is more likely where distinctions based on sexuality, or more likely presumed sexuality, are being made in early schooling. Bullying could easily take the form of older adolescents and teens wanting to debate gay sex with them, guess why :(

There would be no surprise either if children were being pursued and groomed by older gay pupils or students, siblings met through contacts in other homes and at sport. The too-early sexualisation of children creates the environment for that.

Rhrosty:

Why do you feel the need to keep justifying the existence of homosexuality?

You tell us that it is perfectly natural and normal and that is the way some people are. Who disagrees with any of that? If all that is true then it does not need to be justified anymore than heterosexuality.

How hypocritical it is to keep justifying what does not need to be justified – it sounds like you are very unsure about what you believe. You just resort to calling people homophobes. Why do you care so much if they are homophobes? It is not going to make them change just because you call them names so it is just stupid to keep doing it unless you think you can bully them into changing and what satisfaction is there in being a bully yourself when you claim to be so against it?

Bring on the plebiscite! Better yet make "equality" an election issue and stop with all this patent nonsense. As for my assertion that people turn out as the creator made them rather than as some folk seem to alleged are groomed into becoming homosexual.

And given that is the moronic theme being pushed here, it needs to be responded to!

As for those who choose to believe otherwise, they possibly include closet gays determined to prove to be something other than who and what the creator made?

And indeed pious pedophiles hiding in plain sight? As shakespeare might have noted, methinks thou doth protest too much? Bring on the plebiscite, the sooner the better!
Rhrosty.

Hi Rhosty,

I'm still trying to get my head around this unbelievably idiotic thought bubble.

Perhaps you're right that some people are born homosexual. But perhaps also, many are made homosexual - and this dopey initiative will very likely swell the numbers of all manner of KLBGHTHIQ (including Hermaphrodite, Intersex and Queer people), and provide a wonderful environment for all manner of pedophiles to groom impressionable young people in a multitude of ways. Pedophile heaven.

Not to mention encouraging young people to tap into pornography on-line - which I thought, most likely incorrectly, that some parents and even TV stations were united against, when it came to children. But what would I know these days ?

Plebiscite over homosexual marriage ? Yeah, sure. As long as the tiny LBG etc. population keeps over-reaching, in its arrogance and total misunderstanding of the Australian population: keep demanding more and more, and the Australian population will come to understand that there will be no end to demands, once they vote for homosexual marriage. Go for it.

Rhosty, if your mob loses the plebiscite, can you promise never to raise these issues again ?

And in the unlikely event that your mob has a narrow win, will you guarantee that that will be the end of it ? No more absurd demands ?

By the way, I support the legalisation of homosexual acts, but I will never consider them 'normal'. And that's my right. IF that makes me a homophobe, then yes, yes, yes, I'm a homophobe. Suck it up and bugger off. Oops, 'bugger' may now be the property of the homosexual lobby, I might need written approval to use it. So sue me.

Joe

I think my concerns surrounding the safe schools program is not that it relates to LGBTI issues, but that programs like that focus or highlight minority issues.

I think, especially in the public school system the curriculum should be about the majority. I am NOT talking about white pride, that kind of preferencing but that every program in the school should seek to benefit the majority of people.

How much better would the school system be if every student was taught to love and respect ALL students. If every student was taught to care and support ALL humans. Because ultimately whether we label ourselves as white, gay, religious, left-wing, female whatever we are all humans first and foremost.

Why not fund a program that teaches us to treat ALL humans with love and respect. Teach that NO human wants to be bullied. That ALL humans want to feel peace and be successful?

When you focus on one minority group the question has to be asked, why not all minority groups? The AFL has indigenous round, but why not Christian round, or vodka lovers round?

This issue is overcome when the majority (being humans) is the focus, anything less is just marketing and money grabbing. (Like the AFL indigenous initiatives)

Prebs (today, 29 February, 12:55:48 PM) says

" the majority ... [should be] the focus" and

"the curriculum should be about the majority ... every program in the school should seek to benefit the majority of people."

That's simply a democratic fallacy; appeal to numbers.

Prebs gets a bit absurd - "When you focus on one minority group the question has to be asked, why not all minority groups? The AFL has indigenous round, but why not Christian round, or vodka lovers round?"

Well, Christians aren't a minority - not yet, anyway.

And vodka-lovers ?? That undermines your 'argument' quite a bit.

As for the "AFL indigenous round" Prebs resort to disparaging and a distinct LACK of respect when he deems it to be "just marketing and money grabbing."

What happened to Prebs call for "a program that teaches us to treat ALL humans with love and respect. Teach that NO human wants to be bullied. That ALL humans want to feel peace and be successful?"

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Lack of respect for whom? The AFL?

First: Last time I checked it wasn't a person to be offended.

Secondly: Motive. How exactly does a for-profit organisation justify spending money on services and the like in an area for which there isn't a business case of profit in the future?

All people should be treated with respect, and I have no issue with any organisation marketing towards whatever group it desires to influence. But back to my original point. In the case of the AFL there is an excellent business case for it's indigenous (a minority) focus. Excellent athletes, developing economy, etc. But if the AFL is only 'supporting' the Aboriginal people because they are a minority, why not others?

When a federal or state government commission a program that 'supports' a particular minority, other minorities are justified in asking "why not us?"

If the bullying of LGBTI is important to government, what about the bullying of the Mormons, what about the New Zealanders, or any other group?

When I was in school I (a white male) was abused and spat in the face by a Muslim immigrant girl. She got no punishment, the teacher didn't even talk to her. In talking about bullying, lets forget about WHY people are being bullied and focus on the fact that NO-ONE should be.

Again, if 100% of the students are human. The MOST INCLUSIVE anti-bullying school program that could be adopted is one which taught respect for all humans, not just about one minority.

Prebs replied - "Lack of respect for whom? The AFL?"

That is highly disingenuous as my reference to a "distinct lack of respect" was in a sentence in which I highlighted, with quotation marks, the "AFL indigenous round".

Again, Prebs disrespects the indigenous rounds and, from this exchange, I conclude Prebs disrespects Indigenous Peoples.

The rest of Prebs post is hand-waving.