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The Forum > Article Comments > Should people be denied ‘choices’ at the end-of-life? > Comments

Should people be denied ‘choices’ at the end-of-life? : Comments

By Paul Russell, published 29/1/2016

When parts of the Australian media recently applauded the double suicide of a well-travelled, well-educated Melbourne couple who were not ill but simply growing old, I think we all need to stop and wonder where this is all going.

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"These are prohibitions that have existed since our laws were written and previously, into antiquity, in the laws of nature."

We are repealing age-old prohibitions every day, for the benefit of everyone: it's called progress. And whatever the 'laws of nature' are in this respect, it's hard to see how they support keeping the infirm and suffering aged alive. You might want to check that with your local pride of lions or mob of kangaroos.

Arguments like these are invariably made out of religious convictions. What makes them hypocritical and pernicious is that the religious convictions are then hidden beneath a veneer of plausible-sounding justifications like this.
Posted by Jon J, Saturday, 30 January 2016 6:15:11 AM
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Dear Suse,

Thank You for your advice regarding my mum.

We're taking her to the doctors on Monday for
a check up.

I managed to get her to eat a piece of cake
for afternoon tea yesterday afternoon and a banana
with a cup of tea. So I made some progress.

OTB,

Thank You for your post as well.

Much appreciated.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 30 January 2016 7:49:31 AM
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There are too many cogent and believable stories of out of body experiences to simply assume that life ends when the spirit (life force) departs the corpse.

And if you can simply dismiss that with an airy wave and talk of hallucinations, read life after life, and endless evidence based reports of folks who remembered past lives even down to the daily headlines, which when checked confirmed their recollections!

And if that's not enough evidence, then what about the highly reported Australian case of a young man never ever exposed to mandarin or Chinese, waking from a long coma able to speak flawless mandarin!

And don't you dare start that waffle that goes the human brain is a wondrous mysterious thing.

Maybe so, but beyond belief to infer it has the power to teach itself the most complex language in the world while in a deep coma!

Life is our most precious gift. And old folks can be and sadly already are treated as a burden.

I want three volunteers for latrine duty, you,you, and you.

I watched as an old digger( William Riddle, former pathologist in Towoomba) who spent four years in hell, being shamefully ejected from his own home!

Being told by a young dictatorial doctor? that he couldn't go home, because he lived alone and might fall down.

And even when it was abundantly clear that he didn't want to go to a distant entirely unfamiliar nursing home, that's what happened. Choice? what choice?

Given the slippery slope, where this stuff is legal; that's how voluntary euthanasia is going to also be applied.

Particularly, I believe, when it involves valuable real estate or large bank accounts etc.

Rights what rights? Particularly when the person can be described as old, feeble and demented by doctors who may have never ever seen the person!?

Trust me, it happens.

And given anyone who wants to control how they meet their maker, already has a personal choice to make a living will! (defacto voluntary euthanasia?) Why in heaven's name do we need more?
Non religious Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Saturday, 30 January 2016 9:30:55 AM
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Hi there FOXY...

I'm very sorry to hear of your Mum's dementia, and that she's stopped eating. It's really so hard to watch a loved one deteriorate, and not being able to do anything about it? If euthanasia was permitted, and I had a loved one with severe dementia and was deteriorating, I still couldn't bring myself to ask a Doctor to relieve them of their misery. Unless it was an instance of excruciating, and untreatable pain and today that's a very rare event.

The 'misery' or wretchedness I speak of, that I'd like to spare my 'loved one' from, is perhaps my own? In which case I really need to find the necessary courage and resolve, to care for them to the best of my ability, until nature takes it's course. And it's very hard to watch someone you love, slowly die. It demands immense courage.

Foxy if euthanasia were to be legalised, I'd respectfully suggest it would indeed, be selfish of you to permit medical intervention to end her life. Furthermore it's much harder for you to care for your Mum as you witness daily, symptoms of her invariable decline while she's still in your care. After all, we only have one Mum and one Dad, as such they're mighty precious to most of us!
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 30 January 2016 12:31:48 PM
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O Sung Wu "Unless it was an instance of excruciating, and untreatable pain and today that's a very rare event."

Unfortunately it is not a rare event O Sung Wu. I have seen dying people in unrelieved pain far too many times. Sometimes, the only medications left to use are anesthetic medications, which basically puts them in a coma.
That is not living, and in those cases I would readily agree to euthanasia, as do the extremely distressed relatives begging us to do it...

Rhrosty, there are good and bad people amongst the medical profession, just as there are in any job. No one wants to go into a nursing home, but to leave some poor people to slowly die in their own filth alone in their home is not an option in today's society, even if they 'refuse' to go.

Obviously, we can't physically force anyone to go into a nursing home, so in many cases, they are left in their own home until they fall and break something, then they are back in hospital unable to physically go home again.

The medical staff working in the community, like myself, are damned if they do and damned if they don't, in the case of an elderly frail person living alone.
If we suggest they may need more care than we can provide them, we are the nasty ones trying to 'lock them away in an old people's home'.

If we don't try hard to get them the care they need in a residential facility, and that person falls in their home a few minutes after we leave them, often we aren't returning until at least another 24 hours, if they are lucky. If it is winter and they break a bone, which is common, then they lie where they fall, with no warmth, food, drink, pain relief or toilet until someone eventually turns up.
You can imagine the nightmare they have been through, if they live, which is usually the case...
(cont'd)
Posted by Suseonline, Saturday, 30 January 2016 1:30:20 PM
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(Cont'd) So try not to judge all medical staff too harshly Rhosty, when most of us try really hard to keep people in their own homes as long as possible, but we can't willingly neglect anyone. Often, long-suffering neighbours are left with the stress.

In any case, it is often the relatives of frail elderly people who act like they really care about vulnerable people and 'support' their decisions to remain in their own home long after it is safe and practical for them to do so.
Why? Because they don't want to have to sell the old person's home (inheritance) in order to pay for the nursing home bond that the Government requires. It would be far better financially for the relatives if the old person dies at home or in hospital.

On the other hand, we also have to watch out for the relatives of aged people who don't own their own homes, and these relatives push too soon for the old person to go into care when they don't need to yet! These relatives are often sick of the responsibility as they see it.
Posted by Suseonline, Saturday, 30 January 2016 1:40:29 PM
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