Hi Loudmouth
this is my 4th post so it's all over for 24 hours..
Yes I meant the god-kings of Angkor and Bali where the rigid ritualistic order of authority and social rank was a theocratic fascism in the Roman sense. It seems to have parallels in Aztec , Inca etc. As a workable regime it appears to have proven effective and in Bali was only destroyed by Christian Dutch massacres in 1906.
Hindu-Buddhist practice in SE Australia tribal order was like-wise destroyed 1788-2016.
( 24 hours to go...)

Hi Nick,

Maybe the term 'fascist' is a bit out of time, anachronistic ? But you put your finger on the likelihood that pretty much all pre-capitalist (and some capitalist) societies were pretty brutal, usually absolutist without much of a shred of democracy and, in the case of enemies and rebels, exterminatory.

And to bring all that back to topic: those absolutist systems invariably used religion to sanctify their regimes. Religion and absolutism went together. Where it could, religion WAS absolutist, rigid, unquestioned: Islam is not the only backward force combining religion and absolutism.

The late Jack Goody wrote somewhere (I think in 'The Theft of History') about the growing tension between received wisdom, the word of the Book and its main beneficiaries, and the development of new, extra, contradicting knowledges which were unavoidably being developed in universities, through early capitalist trading systems and the demands of secular life, the circulation of billions of books in vernacular languages, and the independent observations and hypotheses of people like Kopernik and Galileo. Of course, Kopernik/Copernicus made a brilliant career move by dying on the day his book was published, so it was out there in its thousands while he was being safely tucked up in his grave.

I think Goody's point was that, for a host of reasons, the search for knowledge beyond sacred books was carried out across Europe in a multitude of settings and directions, so that, even if it had occurred to any European ruler or church to try to control all that unlicenced knowledge - it would have been far easier under single-empires such as the Ottomans or Moghuls or Chinese dynasties - it would have been like trying to catch fleas.

Another thing, Nick: fascists love architecture. Not that all amazing architecture is therefore fascist, but it's more than a coincidence.

See you in 24 hours.

Cheers,

Joe

Hey, Peter! Why is Al Qaeda more compassionate than you?

The 9/11 hijackers got to die instantly.

Besides, the primary reason why religion is rapidly on the wane in Australia is the Internet. It's a great equaliser when everyone has access to a slew of facts at their fingertips.

Dear George,

I was responding to Sellick and using the word, culture, the way I think he was using it. Christianity is responsible for many things both good and bad. Sellick chooses to disregard the evil part and attack those as biased who mention it.

Dear George,

Worship is not limited to deliberate rituals and the objects of worship are not limited to deities: it is quite common to worship the idols of fame, power, money, beauty, sex, nation, ancestors, leaders, etc.

Religion aims to bring one's attention back on God and we typically kick and scream and throw tantrums because we want to go back to our old habits.

For some people, the authoritarian figure of a Father does the trick better. Add the attribute of jealousy to warn them against straying and so they will keep on the straight and narrow. For others, however, it works better to depict God as Mother (including Mary, Mother of God), ever patient, ever forgiving, ever forbearing, ever gracious, ever nurturing. Others still, relate to God as their child, their baby (including Baby Jesus), while for others even, God is their friend, their host, their guest and even their lover. Outstanding philosophers could worship God without any attributes, for indeed God has no attributes, but this is an extremely difficult, lonely and frustrating path, where many have gone mad (including the famous Jewish Rabbi, Ben Zoma).

So rather than attributing the apparent differences to East/West, we should view them as personal.

God as Mother and as a friend is described here: http://www.yogananda.com.au/pyr/pyr_devotion3.html

I was hesitating about the following link because it is a bit judgemental/snobbish, but it does provide too good an overview to miss: http://www.wicca-spirituality.com/relationship-with-divine.html

Hi Yuyutsu,

As an atheist, I was very taken with your description:

"For others, however, it works better to depict God as Mother (including Mary, Mother of God), ever patient, ever forgiving, ever forbearing, ever gracious, ever nurturing. Others still, relate to God as their child, their baby (including Baby Jesus), while for others even, God is their friend, their host, their guest and even their lover."

After all, we create god in our own preferred image, how we would like people everywhere to be.

In Burkina Faso, two wonderful people - in their eighties - have been kidnapped by followers of a different religion. The Elliotts have been working as doctors for forty years; they built the hospital they work in, and clearly want to stay there until they die.

I've known only a couple of missionaries well, and they were both really good, kind people, they never shoved religion down anyone's throats.

On the other hand, I wonder if there are many on the 'left' , or amongst the Greens, who would do anything like that - to go to a poverty-stricken part of the world and spend the rest of their lives there.

Correction: I wonder if there are ANY on the 'left' or amongst the Greens who would do that.

And the Elliotts are not the only ones: Dr Catherina Hamlyn and her husband went to Ethiopia in the early sixties and set up a hospital there to repair the terrible damage done to girls and young women during childbirth. Catherine Hamlyn is still there, still going, as far as I know, although she must be ninety by now. I could mention Mother Teresa as well.

Regardless of their religion, some people are just really good people.

I nominate the Elliotts and Dr Hamlyn as Australians of the Year for 2016.

Joe