People aren't born as jews or christians! It takes some significant indoctrination to establish their blind faith in any religion.

Hi Nigel,

Religions involve some belief in supernatural figures and mythical actions, AND inevitably a set of ethical principles which even secularists can evaluate, criticise and live by. As an atheist, I am comfortable with the notion that much of whatever passes for my own ethical base derives to a large extent from Christian principles.

Of course, every religious tradition, if it relies on written sources, is thereby a grab-bag of principles which have been developed in all sorts of environments, running off in all directions. The ideas of the Enlightenment in western Europe were painfully and slowly developed to a very large extent on the basis of a variety of selected Christian principles, meshing with other traditions. These include Judaic-Greek-Roman influences, early European tribal organisation, the separation of church and state, Magna Carta, the Treaty of Westphalia, and the sheer weight of social, economic and political experience in Europe's multitude of political environments over many centuries.

Other church traditions of course opposed those developments towards a secular-oriented Enlightenment tooth and nail. You could say that the Enlightenment developed in the interstices, the gaps, within established Christian ethics. But for all that, without Christianity - if all of Europe had been overrun by barbarians, for example - there may not have been anything like the Enlightenment and our present-day set of core values, with all their faults and side-tracks.

Well, that's my opinion. The right of everybody to express their opinions should be respected in modern societies, and I'm sure you would agree that not every opinion is worthy of equal respect: some opinions [you may say those above] are just daft, and those are what should be criticised, 'deconstructed', and countered with 'better' opinions. Give it a go :)

Cheers,

Joe

Once again you go the verbal Peter and with nothing more than your par for the course grab bag, of pure speculation and assumption.

You simply cannot know what folks think, or why the majority have turned their collective backs on organised religion, which may be sacred to you, but anachronism to others?

Not for nothing is it writ large, an unexamined life is hardly worth living. One could say the same for an entirely unexamined belief system.

And as a consequence blind acceptance of a religion founded on a sea of bloodletting,(six million slaughtered Muslims) ritual sacrifice, (burning at the stake) pagan superstition, (sacrifice at an altar) lives spent in penniless servitude and last but not least endemic pedoephelia.

The Swan is dead buried and cremated. Only blind control freaks refuse to accept that, or the fact people have minds of their own; and are able to discriminate between proven fact and endless fable, backed only by the accounts of other fable writers in a patent exercise of the discrimination bias.

A discrimination bias that proves nothing, other than the blind faith of this or that author!
Rhrosty.

Hi Rhosty,

Those who won't learn from history may not be doomed to repeat it, but neither can they possibly understand how they got where they are and what foundations they build their assumptions on.

Not sure where you get that figure of six millions Muslims - you're not counting those killed by other Muslims - Genghis Khan, Timurlaine, etc. - by any chance ? Or is it just a handy figure to wave at Jews ?

Cheers,

Joe

Loudmonth (Joe) happy to take a bet that that just about every one of your ethical rules existed long before Christianity.

Peter, I think you continue to be confused to how many Christianity is seen by many secularist.
And you are certainly confused about how most Atheist see any religion.

Secularist say that all religion have equal footing and therefore we should give no religion favoritism. Peter that means Christianity is treat the same as Jainism.

Many atheist Peter would see the idea of christian theology as the same level as having a serious study in astrology.

Peter we do agree on one thing though...the falling number attending Christian churches has nothing to do with the truth of the christian message. It was never true, they haven't all rushed off to become atheist, they just joined different made up religions where organised religions have no power.

That is what organised religion fears not the lack of belief but the lack of power.

To call someone a rationalist who can't see the totally morally bereft fruit of secularism is a twist on the English language. Imagine doing just a little rational thought on the affects of feminism. Look at the totally messed up lives of those that secularist enshrine. Our universities which were originally great places of learning are now socialist propaganda producing places. We turn out people with pseudo morals like the getup crowd, the gw alarmist, the gay brigade, the transgender promoters, the baby killers etc. Secularism has not only produced a morally bereft society but dumbed down the population to a very large extent. With no absolutes, no right and wrong (except for those rotten Christians)and no moral base its no wonder. No wonder Islamist laugh at us.