.

(Continued ...)

.

In other words, Peter, if ever we were tempted to do away with religion (God forbid !), under no circumstances would we be doing away with the "sacred".

Not just rationalists, humanists and secularists, but even atheists (!) would continus to cherish and defend, tooth and nail, anything or anybody they hold "sacred".

You can rest assured about that, Peter, and have a good, peaceful night's sleep.

.

I wonder, Mr Sellick.

"Worldwide, academic theology is alive and well with centres in all the leading universities. If Christianity was doing a dying swan act then it would be expected that such studies would be moribund. But they are not. Conferences are organised, books published, reputations established. The Church is actively involved in a conversation with the world."

The first part may well be true.

But I don't see the conversation of which you speak being conducted, at all, with "the world". I have a sneaking suspicion it may be an entirely internal matter, taking place entirely between fellow theologists.

Your own conduct on this Forum illustrates this, as you consistently refuse to engage with anyone but those few loyal souls who employ the same jargon, refer to the same sources, and generally comport themselves as theological insiders.

Peter Sellick wrote: "Given all, this my criticism of the rationalists, the humanists and the secularists is their desire for a society in which the sacred is no more."

Secularists have nothing against the sacred in any form. A secularist may be an ardent practitioner of religion or an adherent of some other form of the sacred. A secularist is for separation of religion and state. That has nothing to do one way or the other with a feeling toward the sacred.

Rationalists and humanists can have feelings of wonder at the fact that there is something rather than nothing, the immensity of the universe, the beauty of life, the interrelations of the different forms of life, the miracle of birth, the love of living beings for each and all the other things that make living awesome.

What rationalists and humanists also have is a sense of the ridiculous. A religion founded because a king wanted a divorce, a woman impregnated by a ghost but remaining a virgin, an entity taking on the sins of others, a god divided into several parts, an afterlife and all the other nonsense that go with your religion are things that a thinking person must find ridiculous.

Dear Yuyutsu,

God is nothing but a human construct. Humans invented God. Humans did not invent the natural world. We can see it all around us. However, there is absolutely no evidence for God. He/she/it is nothing but a human construct.

Dear David,

You are just confusing between God and the concept of God. I agree that the latter is a human construct.

I could for example throw a cat in your face, but not online, only if we met face-to-face - online I can only throw you the concept of 'cat'.

And yes, there obviously is no evidence for God - if there was, then it would reduce God to the state of an object which in turn would become a subject for jokes. I am not interested in worshipping an object and in that case I wouldn't have called an object 'God' in the first place (perhaps it could be called a 'god' with a small-g, but that would mean something else altogether and then "deity" would probably be a more accurate and appropriate term).

loudmouth writes; "As an atheist, I am comfortable with the notion that much of whatever passes for my own ethical base derives to a large extent from Christian principles."

As Cobber pointed out to you, the concepts and understandings that gave rise to our observance of ethical and moral behaviour in a social environment existed in all cultures from China to Ireland for millennia before the appearance of christianity in the Arabian lands. There is an expanding body of evidence that among the "higher" mammals, the great apes, elephants and possibly cetaceans there is a sense of morality. Though I must admit credible references are not easily come by. The Abrahamic upstart religions plagiarised and plundered their scriptures and demanded recognition as the source and origin with threats of horrible consequences for skepticism and curiosity. Thus are these new religions born of theft and conspiracy. Discard your acknowledgment to christianity as it has no basis in fact. Read the Hindu Upanishads, Confucius and Lao Tzu and Siddhartha Gautama [the Buddha]. There are many ways to an harmonious way of life, much wisdom and genius at our call if we just seek it. None need threats of personal violence and eternal pain. Condemnation of modest personal pride in one's own achievements comes only from those who have achieved nothing by their own efforts.

I trust you won't think me to be of too pedantic an inclination when I advise that George Santayana, Spanish-born USA philosopher wrote; "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." He is so often misquoted and hardly ever credited and definitely deserves the kudos for his wisdom