Dearest Foxy,

I think that the 'demonization of Islam' is a bit over-stated. On the one hand, there do seem to be grounds for criticising how Islam is used to justify all manner of brutality (Saudi executions, ISIS executions, bombings, rape, sexual slavery, burnings, etc.). But I don't see any mass protests - in fact, there are not enough protests - in Australia, or any incitement to attack Muslims in response. Perhaps we sensibly leave such violent protests to places like Pakistan. Oops, sorry, is that demonising Pakistan ?

On my bus, Muslims (as far as I can identify such fellow-Australians) don't seem to be at all uncomfortable, or worried, or showing evidence of recent harassment, or recent physical attacks. On that very narrow basis, I would assert that Muslims are most definitely NOT being demonised.

I hope that the proper critiques of ISIS brutality, and Saudi brutality (and no doubt Iranian brutality) - and the recourse of those perpetrators to the Koran for justification - are not used to shut down discussion, dear Foxy ?

Our Muslim fellow-Australians, male and female, are in the main, I'm sure, supportive of the rule of law, equality of men and women before the law, a fair go for all, equal opportunities for men and women, and democratic rights. I hope that any verses in the Koran which denigrate women or diminish their rights in any way, are properly ignored by the majority of Muslims, men and women: I certainly would like to think so.

Love,

Joe

Dear Joe (Loudmouth),

I certainly don't want to close down this discussion.
I fully agree that we should discuss this subject
and hopefully keep the lines of communication open
thus perhaps leading to the modification of some of
our judgements.

I apologise if I gave you the wrong impression.
I shall strive to do better next time around.

Foxy: Reclaim Australia are a small minority - yet their rallies are a perfect example of anti-Islam that attract so much publicity and there are people who buy into this nonsense. They are not peaceful rallies either.

But it has been shown that it's the anti-reclaim protestors that are causing violent, not the Reclaimers.

The Media does it's best to try to skew the facts but never-the-less. The take is that the anti-reclaim demonstrators are violent because of the Reclaim protestors presence. It sell papers.

Foxy: Forgetting the atrocities also committed by Christians. Atrocities like - the Inquisition, Crusades.

Yes, yes, but these things happened 500 years ago. They are not happening now, Well maybe a little here & there. Christianity & the West have moved on.

At the same time as the Christian atrocities were happening the moslems were doing the same thing in Eastern Europe, North Africa & India. They have never stopped & never will stop until all the World is converted to Islam. Then they will still fight viciously amongst themselves.

runner: I hope that any verses in the Koran which denigrate women or diminish their rights in any way, are properly ignored by the majority of Muslims, men and women: I certainly would like to think so.

But I seriously doubt it. They uphold the practise of these verses in their homes & Community.

Hi Jayb,

"I hope that any verses in the Koran which denigrate women or diminish their rights in any way, are properly ignored by the majority of Muslims, men and women: I certainly would like to think so."

You responded:

"But I seriously doubt it. They uphold the practise of these verses in their homes & Community."

And, I would suggest, that to the extent that any Muslims, imams, sheikhs, kadis, etc., privately advocate the diminution of women's rights, they should be criticised for doing so. If that turns out to be the case, then we all have a long, ideological struggle in front of us to bring those people into the modern world.

In other words, to get across, no matter how difficult it may be, that Muslim women in Australia have the same basic rights as many other Australians, men and women, that

* polygamy in its many forms,

* FGM,

* honor killings,

* arranged marriages of under-age girls,

* any discriminatory practices against women,

* and any practice in Australia which disadvantages Muslim women going overseas,

are anathema to the great majority of Australians - and hopefully, to the majority of Muslim Australians as well.

To the extent that any Islamic practices discriminate against women, I hope that they are, indeed, properly demonised - not least by any fair-dinkum Australian feminists, if any still exist. And, of course, if any such practices are secretly going on in any other religious community, then they too should be demonised, as totally un-Australian.

Joe

JayB "They uphold the practise of these verses in their homes & Community."

And you know what all Muslims practice in all their homes and communities?
Wow, you ARE impressive.
And sooo knowledgable about all things Muslim.

I thank you Suze. It's about time you recognized my obvious superior knowledge, in comparison to yours, in these areas.

Did you enjoy the song. Good A, n' so true too.

Aah luvs ya darl. You make it soooo easy fa me. We'll have ta meet some time. Carry a red rose so I'll recognize ya under ya Birka, n' please don't wear an s/vest.