LEGO, you are getting hysterical again because Davidf and I won't agree with you?
Certainly I wouldn't question your intelligence just because you are so wrong about some subjects.

On no post or thread have I seen where either myself or Davidf have 'defended a religion like Islam', as neither of us believe in religions or deities, so that is just a lie.
All I am saying is that as far as I am concerned, religion is often at the root of all evil in this world, no matter which religion.

You certainly can't say that Christian people over the centuries haven't gone out to be violent and murderous in the name of Jesus or their God? It still happens today within all religions.
The bible is full of stories of how so and so led armies to destroy so and so's city because they had apparently upset their God, or the Godly men. The bible never said these killers were evil for doing all that did they?

For God's sake, Suse, that was more than three thousand years ago ! Is that the best (worst) you can do ? What sorts of innumerable atrocities do you reckon have been committed around the world since then ? Everywhere ?

If apologists for relativism are so gutless that they have to go back that far, in order to avoid calling out Islamism for what it is, fascism in our own era, then I have to assume that there is no 'left' any more. And perhaps there hasn't been for decades.

David f,

I'm roughly the same age as the Rosenberg boys. My parents were the same age as Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. That framed our lives. It never occurred to us to abandon our beliefs in a better world, we were just a bit more circumspect about how we went about our daily lives. Was it worth it ? Of course. Those were the days.

But now, no, there is no more Left left. They couldn't survive the Russia-China split, and the degeneration of both. So, bereft, they fell back into cultural relativism and gutless non-judgmentalism, i.e. making no decisions, judgements, stands, against anything, except the standard boogeyman, the US.

Joe

My point Loudmouth is that Christians of today still follow a book written by humans thousands of years ago, just like Muslims do. So they shouldn't be knocking that religion or followers. They are very similar.

If you want recent Christian violence, I believe Africa has problems between them and other religious groups, as well as the killing of abortion clinic staff by so-called Christians. I think the 2 world wars are fairly recent too, and it will take a long, long time for Muslims to knock off as many people as those Christian -led wars did, don't you think?

As I have said, I think all religions and Gods are man-made creations, designed by old men to ensure they control their follower's lives. Islam is no worse than Christianity in my opinion. They should both be outlawed...

Thanks for asking, LEGO.

<<...where have you been?>>

I’ve been posting here on an almost daily basis since you last abandoned me. (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=17794&page=0#315553) Talking mostly about what it looks like we may be about to discuss, funnily enough.

<<Jesus Christ was a pacifist.>>

No, a pacifist is against war in all circumstances. That’s why I gave you examples of the pro-war Jesus.

You don’t need to quote Jesus’ gentler quotes to me. I was a Christian for about half my life. Like the Quran, the Bible is certainly not short on contradictions.

<<Your first two "Jesus" quotes can easily be discerned as a poetic way of saying that he has come to cause trouble.>>

Not when you read them in their contexts. Particularly the second verse. Jesus made it pretty clear that his intent was division and conflict. Even if you were right, it wouldn’t be very characteristic of a pacifist.

<<Your last is not a quote from Jesus at all...>>

I know. But the “He” in that verse was Jesus.

<<...the third quote. Christian theologians claim is this was simply Jesus instructing his disciples at the Last Supper to arm themselves…>>

Again, not very characteristic of a pacifist.

<<...why do you, as a supposed intelligent person and a card carrying "social progressive", defend a "religion" like Islam…>>

I don’t. I never have defended Islam. In fact, I’ve criticised it a few times on OLO. It is a violent and primitive religion. Much like its fellow Abrahamic religions. Islam, however, is still going through its Dark Ages.

<<Everything which Islam advocates is the diametric opposite of what a socialist believes, yet you defend Islam, tooth and nail.>>

“Tooth and nail”, eh? Since when? And what makes you think I’m a socialist? You see what happens when you pigeonhole people into convenient little boxes? You make a goose of yourself.

Yes, ISIS are fascists. And fascists are bad. We should oppose fascism. But let's not lose our sense of perspective here. At the very least, let's not lose our sense of geography or tactics.

What ISIS are doing in the middle east is reprehensible, in much the same way that what the Nazis were up to in their own patch of land was reprehensible before they rolled out the Blitz. But the Krauts had a navy (I'm pretty sure ISIS don't have a navy) and a Luftwaffe (I'm pretty sure ISIS don't have an airforce) and V2 rockets (I'm pretty sure ISIS don't have inter-continental ballistic missiles), and posed a serious and credible threat to countries like England. ISIS have launched no attacks against Australia, and as far as I can tell don't have the capacity to do so. Put it this way: I can't see them bombing Darwin or sending midget subs into Sydney harbour any time soon.

Should we be willing to commit troops and resources to a properly thought out, coordinated military response to this new fascism? My oath we should. Should we have a re-run of Dresden and just carpet-bomb them back to the stone age? I vote no - oh please won't somebody think of the children? Should we entertain the idea that we, in Australia, are under some sort of direct and material threat from a mob of fascists half a world away with no easy way to reach us and highly effective navy ready to repel them? Only if we're really, really paranoid.

I'm more worried about sharks.

"I'm more worried about sharks."
Me too Toni Lavis, both the fish and the human kind of sharks ...,