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Islam in the big picture : Comments
By Syd Hickman, published 15/12/2015Tony Abbott's call for a reformation within Islam demonstrates his lack of historical comprehension.
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Posted by david f, Thursday, 17 December 2015 3:18:41 PM
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david f, "Why argue about the merits of two kinds of nonsense? Belief in nonsense rots the mind. Don’t follow either"
One is left with the suspicion though that if the thread was about the flaws of Christianity you would be direct to that point and wouldn't be rushing in to lead discussion off up a dry gully with endless criticisms of Islam. "Others are equally bad" is a beaut way of burying the truth. Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 17 December 2015 3:25:21 PM
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//Their religion was socialism. Your religion is multiculturalism.//
If socialism and multiculturalism are religions, so is conservatism... Welcome, brother LEGO, to the First Holy Church of People Who Aren't Actually Religious At All. We officially don't worship on Tuesdays, Thursdays and alternate Saturdays (not being religious we don't worship on any other days, but only in a purely unofficial capacity). We celebrate no religious holidays but we still like public holidays which are historically based on religion. We are very ecumenical and can't wait for the day that Jedi becomes a real religion, so that we can have May the 4th off as well. Our holy book is whatever book is your favourite book; I favour the Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. We don't have any religious strictures on dress or diet. We don't perform charity in an official capacity (you're welcome perform private, non-religious charity) but we won't ask for your money either (possibly a first for a religion). You aren't required to pray, contemplate or meditate. We don't worship idols, and our version of the cross, crescent, hexagram et. al. looks like this: http://www.this-page-intentionally-left-blank.org/ We think you'll feel right at home here, Brother LEGO, because this is the only Church in the world where entirely secular ideologies that have no particular stance on religion will be validated as a bona-fide religion. Because we are definitely a religion. At least for tax purposes... Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 17 December 2015 3:34:06 PM
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//The fact that two cultures with diametrically opposed value systems can not exist peacefully in the one territory, where immigration or birth rate differentials threaten the primacy of one culture, is as immutable as the Law of Gravity.//
I dunno about that... I seem to recall when I was a wee lad seeing lots of stuff on the news about two 'diametrically opposed value systems' trying to exist in the one territory merrily blowing the crap out of each other... that territory being Northern Ireland. I'm not sure how much of was about Catholicism vs. Protestantism, and how much was about the Irish being unwilling to have their land invaded by a foreign power. Probably a bit of both. But they do seem to have stopped blowing the crap out of each other, and the English haven't buggered off. I just think that wiser heads prevailed on both sides and realised that not blowing the crap out of each other was preferable to the alternative. Multiculturalism hasn't caused any wars in Australia. There have been a few scuffles spotted here and there during our history, but nothing on the scale of the 'Troubles' (best euphemism ever). Certainly nothing on the scale of the English civil war. We're a pretty peaceful mob who seem to rub along all right together despite our differences. Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 17 December 2015 3:38:04 PM
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Dear onthebeach,
I think you are a kind and generous person. If you prefer one form of religious nonsense to another form of religious nonsense fine. Posted by david f, Thursday, 17 December 2015 3:48:08 PM
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If "people" cause wars, Susie, then the only way that you can prevent wars, is to abolish "people."
People also start wars on behalf of idealistic ideologies. The 30 million murdered and deported by Stalin died because he and his Party wanted to create a class free, ethnically blind, and profit free society. The 30 million who starved to death under Mao died because he was too stupid to figure out that socialism and collective farms could not work. Two million Cambodians died in the killing fields because their socialist leaders wanted to create the perfect society. Whoops, I suppose you did not want to mention that, because all of these idealist ideologies are getting too close to your own idealistic ideology. Multiculturalism failed everywhere. The leaders of Germany, Austria, Britain and Italy have all made public statements saying that multiculturalism is dead in their countries. Your claim that Australia is "the world's most successful multicultural nation", sure looks funny with the crowd in their tens of thousands at the MCG in Victoria today being searched for weapons and bombs. Two days ago, a 14 year old boy was arrested for planning a terrorist attack. The authorities said that they may have to keep him locked up "indefinitely" until he can be deprogrammed. This is what our multicultural society has sunk too. We now lock up kids without trial. Some triumph of multiculturalism there. I could easily write 1000 words giving examples of how Australia's society has changed for the worse under multiculturalism. You will still be saying Australia is the "world's most successful multicultural country" when the Muzzies start demanding Sharia Law in "their" areas, and Muslim patrols in your own neighbourhood are calling you a whore. That is already happening to Australian women driving through the Muslim suburb of Auburn. Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 17 December 2015 3:57:00 PM
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You wrote: “But now, no, there is no more Left left. They couldn't survive the Russia-China split, ...”
The left still exists.
In the pre-revolutionary French parlement the nobility and clergy sat on the right and the commoners sat on the left of the speaker. That was the origin of the term left and right applied to politics. The commoners were the rich who were neither clergy nor nobility. The original left were the French Bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie wanted to have an equal vote with the clergy and nobility.
http://alphahistory.com/frenchrevolution/tennis-court-oath/ describes their effort to do so. The left became equated with revolution because the efforts of the bourgeoisie to get an equal vote in parlement were the first in a series of events that led to the French Revolution.
The words, socialist and socialism, emerged in the early 19th century. See Raymond Williams’ “Keywords” for details. A federation of working-class socialist parties formed the First International in 1864 with the support of Karl Marx. In 1876 the First International was dissolved. It was dissolved because followers of Bakunin opposed followers of Marx.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin tells about Bakunin. He saw the tyranny inherent in Marxism.
From that website:
“Bakunin criticized "authoritarian socialism" (which he associated with Marxism) and the concept of dictatorship of the proletariat which he adamantly refused.”
Bakunin said:
“If you took the most ardent revolutionary, vested him in absolute power, within a year he would be worse than the Tsar himself.”
The second International was formed in 1889 and broke up in 1914 due to the strains of WW1. However, the anti-Marxist anarchist movement stayed alive and well.
The Soviet Union in 1917 founded the Third International. The Trotzkyists broke with the Stalinists and formed the Fourth International in 1938.
There is also a non-Marxist democratic socialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism tells about it.
Anarchists, Trotzkyists and democratic socialists still exist and were not involved in any way in the Russia-China split. Until recently there were three anarchist groups in Brisbane – Catholic anarchists, anarcho-syndicalists and humanist anarchists.