Mac I can't argue with your points, especially the fantasy shared by many Western "leaders" that Islam can be reformed by liberal democracies.

Such attempts at "reform" have failed for 1,400 years. As Albert Einstein once said "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe".

people who think they can reform Islam obviously have no idea of Mohammeds life, example and the Koran. They are usually the same people who totally misrepresent history, Christ, His example and teachings. They live in fairy land and that is why so are gullible enough to accept evolution as 'science'.

Dear Runner,

People can reform Islam by exposing that both the Koran and the stories about Mohammed's life are late fabrications, starting around the year 790, nearly 160 years after Muhammad's death and having very little to do with the actual saint Muhammad who lived in the 6th-7th century.

Hi Yuyutsu
In another post i responded to Joe with a challenge. He is yet to take me up, but given your interest in the Quran, I thought you might like to comment.

Here is the post:

Hi Joe

You asked that I present my views for scrutiny "and if they are solid, they will stand up to scrutiny in discussion with others"

Let's see if you are willing to provide that scrutiny in an objective manner.

Given my background, an appropriate starting point would be the view that the Quran has not been corrupted. By corrupt I mean that there have been changes to the original text over time.

This is a statement which is refutable. Its been done with the Bible. You only need evidence that the version today is not the original. In other words, it has been altered over time.

And I'll put my cards on the table. Refuting this view would undermine my faith, particularly as the Qur'an itself makes a prediction that it will not be corrupted:

"We, Ourselves, have sent down the Dhikr (the Qur’an), and We are there to protect it." 15:9

In reference to this verse, Mufti Taqi Usmani (whose interpretation of the Quran is, I'm told, authoritative) has said: "Here Allah Almighty has taken upon Himself that the Holy Qur'an will remain intact for all times to come, and no one will be able to change it, as it happened with earlier Scriptures" . http://www.maarifulquran.net/

So in refuting this view you would also be proving that the Quran cannot be the word of God (since God does not make false predictions).

Now since you maintain the Quran was the word of illiterate, ignorant and inbred nomads of the desert it should be a relatively straight-forward exercise. You should be feeling relaxed and comfortable with such easy task.

Over to you.....

Dear Grateful,

As a fellow religious person, I will never say anything to undermine your religion.

Science and the people of the world keep asking about facts - "Is it so?", but we religious people, don't have time to spare on such silly questions, we ask instead: "Is it good?"!

From all I have read of you in your posts, I find that following the path of Islam is good for you, that it brings you closer to God, so I urge you to continue in this path and follow your enlightened Sheikh, Nuh Keller, may Allah grant him long life.

If you have questions regarding the Qur'an, better ask your Sheikh than myself, but better still, know that the path of the heart is faster and safer than the path of the mind. Both lead to God, but the latter is harder and more treacherous.

Sing the praises of Allah, in good company if you can, do good deeds in His name, pour out your heart towards Him and if you find it difficult to address Him directly, then do so through His prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

May Allah be constantly in your thoughts, may His name never leave your mind, may you find eternal peace and happiness in Him.