To Banjo

Now you are using the concept of the "moderate Muslim."

Since you believe in the concept of the "moderate Muslim", and I don't, could you tell me what your "moderate Muslim" friends believe in?

Do those "moderate" Muslims believe that church and state are the same thing? Do they believe that Sharia Law should take precedence over secular law? Do they denounce western concepts of gender equality? Do they believe that Muslim apostates, pagans and homosexuals should be murdered? Do they think that a woman has no right to say who she should marry? Do they believe that western women who get raped by Muslims are "cat meat" sluts who deserve it? Do they believe that raped women should be punished for "allowing herself to be raped" and engaging in "fornication?" Do they believe that Muslim men may marry outside of their faith but that Muslim women may not marry outside of their faith? Do they believe that Islam should be spread through jihad? Do they believe that Islam must not be criticised and that those who do criticise it should be murdered?

Because if they don't believe in these things, they are not Muslims at all.

If the world was full of "moderate Muslims", then most Muslim nations would be "moderate." They are not. 55% of the population of Egypt voted to install a fundamentalist government that would have been something akin to ISIS or the Taliban. And Egypt has long been considered in the Muslim world to be one of the more liberal Muslim societies.

The fundamental problem with Islam is that it is a religion started by a warlord to justify wars of expansion, and to make his warriors invincible in battle by removing their fear of death. As a vehicle for Arab imperialism, it has much to recommend it. It is a religion which is perfect for nomadic Bedouins, and perfect for conquerors, but as a religion which justifies war and terrorism for it's expansion, it is a dangerous and criminal religion and it should be treated as such.

Rodney said;
so many fine, healthy, intelligent young

It was an historical catholic priest that said;
Give him to me at aged 7 and we will have him forever.
However I would challenge the word intelligent,
With 1500 years or more of marrying cousins moslems have a genetic
birth defect rate at least of 13% greater than other populations.
I have read that some believe that the realistic figure is 30% of all
births. That seems rather high to me but both NSW Health Dept and
the Midlands Health Service in the UK state that the figure is high
with UK special schools and care establishments populations confirming
the overloading with moslem children.
I have not seen similar overcrowding reported here.
It would be good to get the statistics but it would be politically incorrect.

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Dear LEGO,

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All those questions you ask appear to be characteristic of radical Muslims rather than moderate Muslims. It is important to avoid lumping them together. They are very different and a clear distinction should be made between the two.

I understand that Islam is one of the fastest growing religions in the world and that there are currently about 1.3 billion Muslims worldwide. The overwhelming majority are moderate. It’s very easy to become a Muslim. It only takes a few minutes. You just have to recite the Shahada (testimony of faith). You can do it in your home.

Most people are simply born into the religion. They are not ideologues.

The few Muslims I happen to know are moderate as I explained in my previous post. One of them was ambassador of Iran to UNESCO in 1979 when the revolution broke out and Ayatollah Khomeini ousted the Shah and created the Islamic Republic of Iran. My colleague has been living and working in Paris ever since.

I have done a lot of international travelling professionally and had dealings with many Muslims. Some of them have invited me to their homes and I met their wives and children. None of these business associates or their families have ever shown any signs of interest in religion though they are all Muslims. As I wrote in my previous post, they appear to be as little concerned by religion as most of the Christians I know.

It is in the Middle East region that, in my experience, the influence of a radical form of Islam is most perceptible. That covers 17 countries (including Israel) and a total population of about 205 million (in 210). The population growth rate is one of the highest in the world.

Here are some of the better-know moderate Muslims :

Chandra Muzaffar in Malaysia, Tarik Ramadan in Europe, Maulana Waheeduddin Khan and Asghar Ali Engineer in India, Khalid Abul Fadl and Louay Safi in the US, Karim Soroush and Muhammad Khatami in Iran.

Here is a presentation of moderate Islam and its beliefs :

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/intro.htm

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Dear Baz,

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You wrote :

« Rodney said;
so many fine, healthy, intelligent young

It was an historical catholic priest that said;
Give him to me at aged 7 and we will have him forever.
However I would challenge the word intelligent,
With 1500 years or more of marrying cousins moslems have a genetic
birth defect rate at least of 13% greater than other populations.
I have read that some believe that the realistic figure is 30% of all
Births »
.

That may be so, Baz, but allow me to point out that those statistics you indicate relate to the descendants of a long line of Moslems going back several generations.

However, the (complete) phrase you are commenting on, “Yet I cannot imagine anything more powerful than to persuade so many fine, healthy, intelligent young people to kill and wound as many innocent people as possible before blowing themselves up or deliberately exposing themselves to a hail of police bullets.”, was not referring to Muslims in general but to jihadists in particular.

Not all jihadists were born of Muslim parents. Many of them are converts to Islam and were born of non-Muslim parents. In fact many of them are very recent converts and were brainwashed specifically to become human bombs.

According to the French Ministry of Internal Affairs, 67% of French jihadists in Syria are from middle class families, 17% are from upper class families and 16% are from lower class families.

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Banjo said;
but allow me to point out that those statistics you indicate relate to
the descendants of a long line of Moslems going back several
generations.

Yes, I see the point you are making re converts.
Just what proportion are converts, not all that many I think.

Re the "moderate moslems" they are irrelevant they do not reduce the
problem nor do they increase it, except they normally do not provide
information about other moslems.

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Dear Baz,

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You wrote :

« Just what proportion are converts, not all that many I think »
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I’m afraid I have no statistics on that. I understand the jihadists target vulnerable young people on the internet and through other contacts. Vulnerable young people are generally those who have a problem at home or at school or both. They are not necessarily Muslims but often children from migrant families who have difficulty integrating into society.

I already indicated in my previous post the only reliable statistics I have and, as you can see, 84% are surprisingly from middle and upper class families and only 16% from lower class families.
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You also wrote :

« Re the "moderate moslems" they are irrelevant they do not reduce the problem nor do they increase it, except they normally do not provide information about other moslems »
.

Unfortunately, I have no information on that either but according to the French authorities, some of the “repentant” jihadists cooperate by alerting them that somebody they know has just converted to Islam and is being brainwashed into becoming a jihadist.

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